• Jesus@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.

    Agreed. The purity testing and splintering into to niche issues is what always screws the left.

    If people could just focus and align on some core root cause issues, like getting corrupt money out of politics, the message would be stronger.

    • Ryanmiller70@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      Centrists never have a problem when they do it against leftists, but cry fowl when leftists refuse to compromise with awful human beings that deserve the worst things that happen to them including the end of their lives.

    • FaceDeer@fedia.io
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      4 days ago

      All well and good, but what happens when someone comes to the meeting and says “we should end corruption and remove Trump, but I don’t like DEI policies.”

      I’m guessing that will suddenly be added to the “root” cause and we’re right back into splintering and purity spirals again.

        • FaceDeer@fedia.io
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          3 days ago

          This is another perfect example of the point I’m making. The slightest variation from perfect alignment with your complete set of ideals and you’d rather descend into a purity spiral and purge your own supporters than beat Trump.

          It’s a tale as old as history, alas.

            • FaceDeer@fedia.io
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              3 days ago

              Be careful with insisting on “all or nothing”, you often end up with “nothing.” Like what happened in the 2024 election.

              Also, I am not a racist. If you read my other comments you’ll find that I’m in favor of the intent of DEI programs, they’ve just been implemented badly in many cases. But it’s just like the virtue-signalling that Trump himself demands of his followers, the moment I said something that seemed slightly out of step I get ejected into the “enemy” camp. No compromise, no effort to understand nuance.

              Well, bold strategy, good luck with your future elections I guess.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        4 days ago

        I’m guessing that will suddenly be added to the “root” cause

        Hopefully yes, because that’s exactly what it is. You can’t fight fascism with fascism lite.

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          You don’t vote for the candidate you want to fight for you, you vote for the candidate that’s easier for you to fight.

          It’s not about fighting fascism with fascism lite, it’s about fighting fascism lite instead of full strength. Whatever you’re going to fight with is going to be much more effective against a weaker enemy.

          • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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            3 days ago

            You don’t vote for the candidate you want to fight for you, you vote for the candidate that’s easier for you to fight.

            If that is the case, then I assume you voted for the geriatric cult of personality who will be dead within the year?

            • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              The fascist with a cabinet full of fascists, congressional control, SCOTUS control, and a detailed fascist playbook?

              No, that would be stupid. Even if he is on death’s door, his replacement will be just as bad.

              • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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                3 days ago

                Ah ok. Then I assume you voted for the PSL candidate who isn’t quite on-board with full communism now (She still believes in markets) , but could probably be swayed that way right?

                • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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                  3 days ago

                  I did not give any consideration to candidates with no chance of winning, for obvious reasons.

                  I voted for the one who wasn’t a rabid fascist, and also stood a snowball’s chance of beating the rabid fascist. So the Dem candidate.

                  If it was useful to vote for allies instead of enemies (say, if our elections were some variety of ranked choice) I would have voted for whoever was most socially liberal and closest to market socialism (since that’s about the farthest we can hope to push the needle in a term or two; after that I’d start considering positions moderately to the left of that, rinse and repeat).

                  But it isn’t, so I didn’t. Dirty break is the only strategy that makes sense in our political environment. Obstruct the worst major party while you build a better platform grassroots style, and then once that platform is popular and normalized, and the worst major party is neutralized, then start running outside the Dem tent.

                  Voting for a candidate with no chance of success, with a population effectively propagandized against the platform, does not improve the material conditions of the working class in any way.

                  • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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                    3 days ago

                    Ah, so the very least you could do, not voting for capitalism, you refused to do. However you have concocted a series of didactic expressions to help you rationalize your unwavering support of the “lesser evil”. But added some additional qualifiers that make your position indistinguishable from the average blue no-matter who voter. I’m sure eventually, somehow, your pragmatically compromised morality will certainly defeat fascism.

                    In the meantime, things have gotten a lot worse for a lot of people, so maybe it’s time for you and the other liberals to try something different?