I was just perusing the modlog when I noticed something interesting. Apparently posting news about Gaza/Palestine is not allowed on !worldnews@sh.itjust.works. I decided to check the side bar and didn’t see anything. The only pinned post also does not indicate that this is not allowed

edit: the mod in question is @Eyekaytee@aussie.zone . sorry for not originally tagging. i hadn’t realized it was a rule that this must be done. i thought it seemed inappropriate since i was trying to initiate a conversation about a community’s rules and culture rather than start drama about an individual

  • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
    2·
    4 days ago

    so. i’m going to answer a little biased. my family is from a place in europe where religious tolerance was the norm from ~300-1883. i think a jewish state, just like any ethnonationalist state, theocratic state, or if i’m being honest any state is a mistake. i do not think zionism being equated to racial/religious violence is a mistake given that the entire project of creating a jewish homeland started with deciding if it shoud be in the levant, modern day Ukraine, or the united states. the levant was ultimately selected less based on the historical merits of some manner of landback movement, but instead based on operational military realities.

    in other words: modern day israel is where it is mostly because it was assumed Florida and Lviv would be places too hard to take over via violence. i cannot endorse this course of action in good conscience. during the rise of zionism as a political ideology, another one also rose: the concept of Doikayt. zionism is neocolonialism. zionism is “we have learned the oppressors ways through the last 12k years and now it’s time we were on top.” Doikayt is “no one should suffer as we have and i cannot be free as long as anyone is not free.”

    i very much believe that safety for the jewish people will not come from a jewish state, or any other state. it will come from meeting our neighbors, making friends with them, dancing and eating with them, and helping them achieve freedom from our united opressors. the thing to understand, as i see it, is that states are illusions of order. they are coagulations of violence that mimic acting in their people’s best interest not in order to provide for their people, but in order to maintain control.

    so. no. i don’t think we need a new word. the old word has been a problem we’ve been working to combat for 140 years. the old word represents an entire ideology of hate and pain that will not ever provide us the safety it promises. and if we do need a new word to describe the problems with a jewish state, it should be in yiddish to represent that zionism is not rooted in the jewish identity, but rather in ashkenazic trauma response, much as Doikayt, hereness, is a yiddish word.

    • goat@sh.itjust.worksBanned from communityEnglish
      14·
      4 days ago

      i think a jewish state, just like any ethnonationalist state, theocratic state, or if i’m being honest any state is a mistake.

      I agree completely. Does that include the arab states throughout the middle-east and palestine itself? These are also ethnonationalist states.

      • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
        2·
        4 days ago

        yes. i also support liberation movements in Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, as well as movements throughout the muslim world towards progress. like i said. i cannot be free until we’re all free.

        but also.

        i don’t see how this is relevant. it seems like a form of whataboutism on the face of it and it’s making me uncomfortable and reconsider what your aims in this discussion are.

        • goat@sh.itjust.worksBanned from communityEnglish
          14·
          4 days ago

          I see you left Iran out of that list. Are they included?

          • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
            2·
            4 days ago

            ??? they’re the first nation i listed

            and no one is excluded from my drive for the liberation of all people. i cannot be free until we’re all free. the ones i listed are simply ones i have friends directly involved in, ones i selfishly have personal stake in because i want my personal friends to sing with joy in a safe and just world where everyone has food, water, shelter, and the right to love who they love.

            • goat@sh.itjust.worksBanned from communityEnglish
              11·
              4 days ago

              oh lol, sorry i derped, was juggling multiple talks at once, wires crossed

              how do you think peace will be achieved? since i just don’t see it ever happening

              • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
                3·
                4 days ago

                same way as everywhere:

                1. solidarity of the working people
                2. united resistance to shared opressors
                3. intergenerational continuity as a bulwark against manipulation
                4. education as a framework against hate
                5. strong community defense oriented not toward the protection of capital but toward the protection of the people
                6. belief / faith / hope that better things are possible

                all peoples of the earth are ultimately only one. it’s a long road, but it’s worth taking

                • goat@sh.itjust.worksBanned from communityEnglish
                  1·
                  4 days ago

                  I hope you don’t mind me poking holes in your peace plan. But doesn’t faith contradict the no ethnonationalism from before?

                  And I agree with education, but what should the response be when Hamas refuses to teach the holocaust to its people’s children?

                  • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
                    2·
                    4 days ago

                    i don’t see any holes poked:

                    1. faith is not strictly a religious experience. it is a human experience. religious people engage with it and center it in their lives in a particular way, but we all engage in faith everyday. for example i am engaging right now in faith that my words have value and that saying them will provide value, that it’s worthwhile to put effort towards build a better world
                    2. i am arguing for education, not indoctrination and hamas doesn’t want an informed public, just like israel doesn’t. education is a framework of providing the younger generations the tools to recognize and seek truth. i’m actually even a little unsure why you brought up hamas when i have at no point provided any indication i think they’re the way forward. but i’ll take it on faith that you had your reasons and say that part of international solidarity is providing marginalized people the tools not to relay on exploitative groups. organized criminal outfits like the bratva, hamas, and kosher nostra thrive in hateful uneducated environments because they offer the opressed what feels like the only way to persist into tomorrow. what i am advocating for throughout these comments is to not give these groups power by empowering the people who empower them via desperation. part of how you do this is you decentralize authority, and to do that you need to teach the children how to understand the context they find themselves in