cross-posted from: https://jlai.lu/post/38184290
[Jesus sits on a rock, speaking]
A new command I give you:
Love one another
[an angry character talks back to Jesus]
What if they’re something bad like gay, trans, brown, or communist though?
[Jesus is facepalming on his rock]
I don’t want to be a messiah anymore
what would be the other way in this context?
Change the orange person’s text to literally any group that receives hatred or dislike to a degree it prevents one loving another. I can say I’ve been at the end of someone automatically treating me very unpleasantly because I wasn’t any of the things the orange person said, I believe the assumption was I was bad because I wasn’t in their group or automatically I disliked them or was the enemy. For what it’s worth my singular core belief is the reduction of needless and avoidable suffering for all minds anywhere in existence. Also to counterpoint, most people are pretty pleasant across the world under most conditions.
So you’re saying there are gay, trans, brown and communist people that discriminate against others solely based on the fact they’re not part of those minorities? That sounds like weird whataboutism to me
It would be a what aboutism if I was using that to defend the poor treatment of them by others. The original claim is for people to love one another. That’s group x towards group y and group y towards group x aka the logic works both ways as I originally stated. For instance if I shook someone’s hand that infers they shook my hand as in the relationship is bidirectional. People setting down their differences and loving one another is a bidirectional system. It doesn’t work if one group wants only the other to put down their differences and love them. It would be like me trying to shake your hand but I do not want you to shake my hand.
still whataboutism. it reduces the relevance of the point of the comic, even though its objectively true that the minorities mentioned in this comic are discriminated against. even if it was the other way around, your comment would still be irrelevant and add nothing to the discussion
It’s a bidirectional system. Imagine I am trying to shake your hand yet simultaneously I do not want you to shake my hand. It doesn’t work. So for everyone to put down their differences and love one another then everyone has to put down their differences and love one another.
It’s not so much an argument of what about this or that but a recognition that it is a bidirectional relationship. If I shake your hand then you also shook my hand.
i want to learn more about what you think but i dont quite understand your metaphor. could you try to explain what you think another way?
You might enjoy graph theory, bidirectional relationships are often modelled in a graph, typically as nodes connected by an edge without a defined direction. Maps and roads with locations are often used as a good example of something easy to model as a graph. So for example you can have two locations A and B connected by a two way road that would be like two nodes connected by a bidirectional edge. A one way street would be like a directed edge or a one way relationship.
Friendships and social networks are another example. Typically if someone is your friend then you are also there’s or if someone is your relative then you are also there relative.
The argument that everyone should love one another is an argument for a bidirectional relationship. So people setting down their differences and loving one another is a bidirectional relationship, from group x towards group y and group y towards group x, similar to the above examples.
Pointing that out I still don’t think is a whataboutism. It’s just the nature of the claim. If it was, everyone love group X even if they don’t love you then that would be a directed relationship.
thanks for taking your time to explain. i agree, but i also think its a bit problematic if you expect to be loved back. if, for example, somebody supports trans rights, i think its okay for trans people/the trans community to not like them back. but i think its a really good and healthy attitude to try to maintain bidirectional relationships whenever possible. i also think we should just set ourselves good examples rather than bad examples