Here is a link to my other post where I expressed my thoughts much better, if you are interested you can take a look – https://lemmy.world/post/37101088
Here is a link to my other post where I expressed my thoughts much better, if you are interested you can take a look – https://lemmy.world/post/37101088
Many countries have digital IDs already and nothing like this is happening. Digital ID has nothing to do we censorship or freezing of bank accounts. Online Safety act was introduces without digital ID. I have a digital ID but I don’t have to show it anywhere.
Ok but imagine if you’re under a fascist government like in America rn or a genocidal goverment like Israel
You say anything bad about Israel’s actions? digital ID revoked at the literal click of a button, can’t do anything You say anything bad about ICE? digital ID revoked at the literal click of a button, can’t do anything
doesn’t help that fascism is growing in lots of countries
Maybe if the world wasn’t shifting to the fascism it would be a good thing. But in a fascist world, digital IDs will be used to persecute people.
Leas government surveillance is always a good thing in a fascist world.
Digital IDs are not used for surveillance. You can just as easily surveil people without them (check out Online Safety Act). Having them does not mean you have to use them all the time.
Online activity is already being tracked since the advent of Facebook and maybe earlier. Yeah, nothing new.
But most people are missing the point behind digital IDs and the pushback.
With digital IDs it will be possible to track people’s activity OFFLINE. Or are you so naive to believe that won’t happen?
Wanna buy alcohol? Let’s scan your ID, record all your personal information, record what you were buying, record the time and location! BAM! You’ve just been tracked offline.
Are you an antifascist terrorist? Wee woo wee woo! That’s the sound the fascist police will make when they come to arrest you for that antifa post you made, because they have been alerted of your location in real time when you were buying some beer.
Says who? How long until that changes?
What people criticizing digital IDs are missing is that you can just as easily track normal ID cards.
You know why that lower half is formatted like that? That’s for computers to scan.
What’s that? That’s an ID scanner! Oh the horror! We’re all being tracked offline!!!1!
First of all, UK does not have personal IDs, just the good old passports.
Second of all, when you buy alcohol in a shop, do you actually need to scan your personal ID or just show your age on it?
Well, with digital IDs you WILL HAVE TO scan them whether you like it or not, when you need to prove you age or identity, that’s how they work, and that’s how they can track people vs. traditional IDs which are just looked at and sometimes they will scan a physical copy of the id on paper, that’s all.
I’ve only ever seen these scanners in airports. Do you really have them in shops where you’re from??
Good answer, I hope that guy understood.
I appreciate a lot will come down to the implementation, but I haven’t understood the proposal to at all guarantee that checking the ID will require some online check. This is meant to be a ubiquitous ID that we can use anywhere. Would businesses really accept having to use an ID that might not work if there’s a spotty data connection?
My read of it is that it’s intended, in most cases, to work like a railcard or digital bus pass does currently in the UK. Not unlike showing someone your driver’s licence, only the image of it on your phone is guaranteed to be valid rather than needing a specific physical card.
There are a lot of “ifs” and mostly potential downsides. So what are the benefits to this?
Have you ever had issues paying with your credit card due to a spotty data connection? Why would that be an issue with scanning your ID? Especially if the government forces businesses to do this.
Well yeah, that’s to begin with. But it also gives a lot of potential for further surveillance, and for what benefits? Do the benefits really outweigh the cons? Especially when the world is turning fascist? I don’t think so.
How many times have you gone “oh damn I wish it was easier proving my identity than showing my passport or driving licence”?
I think there are some genuine benefits to be had (though reducing illegal immigration is obviously not one of them). I do think there’s potential for a much simpler ID system. One that includes people that don’t drive, and doesn’t include giving your address to a stranger via your driver’s license.
I have had issues with using cards in poor network areas, yes. It seems totally improbable to me that this system ends up using an exclusively online process for sharing ID.
Sure there’s potential that this will result in a mass surveillance system, and I obviously don’t want that, but I guess it doesn’t feel particularly novel. If you’re paying by card you’re logging all your payments anyway. The question on my mind is where you currently see government overreach with exising IDs? Why would a new form of ID guarantee any of that changing?
On your last question, I genuinely do hate handing over either of the existing IDs, as they do carry more information than the receiver generally needs.
We don’t have the scanners in shops. That’s my point. Just because it’s possible to scan an ID doesn’t mean the government will scan them. Even in countries that have digital IDs you still have normal ID cards you can show to verify your age. “You will now have digital ID” and “You will now have to scan your ID at store” are two completely different things. People that claim that they are the same simply don’t understand either of them.
Correct! Different things for now. But can you guess will come next?
This just makes it so much easier to take that next step.
You know governments don’t turn fascist in one move? But we are 100% getting closer and closer.
Or are you so naive to trust your government to never decide to take that next step and require you to scan your id everywhere?
I mean, it’s just your phone that you carry around all the time anyways, not like they’re asking you to bring your passport or national id card, right? They’ll just record that, but no worries mate, as long as you’re not anti-fascist, you’re safe!
That obviously depends on where you live. Spain, Poland or Estonia have had digital IDs for decades now and no one is scanning them anywhere. No one is even mentioning that. If you have an issue with fascist government say that. Mixing the whole concept of digital ID in it just doesn’t make sense.
Basically, this is a beta version of what they are going to implement for us.
I think you’re connecting digital IDs with people’s online activity for some reason. In most countries, authorities can already connect online activity with an individual, since you register and pay for internet. Doing things that the powers that be don’t like will get you in legal trouble. Remember the 2000s when the music industry sued individuals for millions? In China they take down your post if it challenges social cohesion, in the USA they take all of your money and assets for challenging corporate revenue.
Most digital IDs are options for people that already have their bank/credit card on their phone and don’t want to carry a wallet just for ID. Some places like Estonia go further with actual asymmetric keys that let you sign documents with your ID’s private key that proves you signed it.
Online activity is already being tracked since the advent of Facebook and maybe earlier. As you said ao yourself.
With digital IDs it will be possible to track people’s activity offline.
Wanna buy alcohol? Let’s scan your ID, record all your personal information, record what you were buying, record the time and location! BAM! You’ve just been tracked offline.
Are you an antifascist terrorist? Wee woo wee woo! That’s the sound the fascist police will make when they come to arrest you for that antifa post you made, because they have been alerted of your location in real time.
I don’t understand. Police can track you down via your credit card, your phone, your licence plate on your car, rando security cameras. All of these are hard to avoid. How often does your ID not just get checked, but recorded? It seems like not much of a game changer.
Yeah I don’t understand the big deal.
We’ve been using digital ID to identify ourselves to online government services in Australia since 2018.
Obviously I won’t be using it to log in to facebook or mucky-jpegs.com but I don’t really see it as a surveillance over-reach.
Just because you don’t see it happening now, it doesn’t mean it could not be used against people to persecute them, especially in fascist countries, where this would be a perfect tool for tracking people and mass surveillance.
This is a slippery slope logical fallacy.
Thing could be used with nefarious intent therefore thing should not exist.
I’ll admit I’m not really across the technical implementation details. The equivalent apps here in Australia don’t have the capability to track or surveil you.
There’s different variants but the ones here basically just show a photo of your ID with an animated background and generate a time based token that can be scanned and verified.
How will I benefit from having a digital ID? I won’t.
So why give away my privacy and gain nothing?
Sounds unnecessary and therefore stupid.
And then you say:
There’s your tracking, you’ve just been scanned and both your location and timestamp have now been recorded by the scanning app, and all the other data associated with whatever you were doing, like buying alcohol or entering a nightclub.
I don’t think this qualifies as a slippery slope fallacy. The outcomes they describe have backing in the form of places like China and the claims aren’t extremely divergent from what can be expected of corps and govs.
The way you are applying it would mean precluding all outlooks with any negative future to them. It’s not wrong to foresee a bad outcome. What would be a slippery slope is if there were no reasonable examples of abuse of this kind of tech or examples of approaching the explained outcome. Alternatively if they took it to an extreme that wasn’t realistic in amy scenario like determining how many kids you were allowed to have who you could date/marry and all determined by a corp or gov.
I’m assuming this meme is actually about requiring ID for social media, not digital ID.
It’s just group think. People don’t like UK gov, UK gov proposed digital ID so digital ID is bad know. People keep posting this without giving it a second thought.