They don’t want people off the streets. The right thrive on stoking the fear and resentment of their base, and what better fuel for the fire than people on the lowest rungs of society.

This is why I have been increasingly frustrated at the UK’s current government, who are shitting themselves about the rise of the right wing Reform party, but refuse to understand that capitulating to their “stop the boats” anti-immigrant rhetoric, they’re just yielding more ground to the reactionary right.

I don’t expect establishment politicians to actually give a fuck about regular people, but they are actively at risk of losing their political power if they continue to ignore the actual root causes of the social malaise that Reform are exploiting. It’s beyond obvious that we are in dire need of investment in services and infrastructure, but I guess they’re afraid of pissing off their political donors and other people with unelected power (billionaires etc.)

I appreciate the edit to your comment.

I can understand where your frustration is coming from. I apologise if this is explaining something you’re already familiar with, but your comment reminded me of research about the “double empathy problem”: how the problems in socialising that autistic people experience seem to mainly present when they’re communicating with neurotypical people — these issues are much lesser when an autistic person is communicating with another autistic person. The theory also suggests that rather than these difficulties being attributed to communication deficits on the part of the autistic person, as has been the historic view, we might be able to better understand the problem in terms of a lack of mutual understanding between an autistic person and a neurotypical person — that is, neurotypical people struggle to empathise and understand autistic people as much as autistic people struggle to do the same with neurotypical people.

I find this quite an empowering perspective, because it disrupts the idea that autistic people are inherently broken or lesser (which unfortunately, many of us have deeply internalised over the years). However, I have seen people who take this notion and seem to twist it into the odd, prescriptive logic that you describe being annoyed at. I find it bizarre because to my eyes, research like this should cause people to be more hopeful about neurodivergent and neurotypical people mixing; if both parties are able to effectively communicate in other contexts, then it should certainly be possible to build mutual understanding.

It may take a little more work to build, but if anything, that’s all the more reason to do it. Empathy and communication are skills that can be honed, and there’s always room for improvement.

This is a long way of saying that I feel your frustration, and I suspect we have heard some of the same rhetoric. I’m glad that you were big enough to acknowledge that your bad mood negatively influenced your original comment. I hope that your day improves, and that you are able to be kind to yourself in the meantime.

I joke that whether I click with someone is like a litmus test for neurodivergence; due to the particular bundle of idiosyncrasies that I am (influenced by both ADHD and autism), I’m a pretty intense person who people tend to either love, or hate.

It’s nowhere near as robust as a peer reviewed diagnosis (that’s a hilarious way to describe it, and I’m definitely stealing that phrasing), but I’ve ended up indirectly causing quite a few people to end up seeking out formal diagnoses.

To step away from the jokes a moment, I do think that “peer reviewed” diagnoses can be powerful, especially when it can be extremely difficult to access the formal assessment process. I am fortunate to live in a country with free healthcare, but a decade plus of cuts mean that most will wait months (or years) for an autism or ADHD assessment. I’ve found that adults who eventually get a formal diagnosis will start out being super anxious of themselves, often worrying that they are appropriating the label or something. No-one wants to be the weird person who seems to be jumping on the neurodiversity “trend” (though in my experience, people who are doubtful in this manner are the furthest thing away from that kind of online trend jumper).

If anyone who reads this comment doesn’t yet have a formal diagnosis and worries that they may be intruding by being in this community, allow me to use the legitimacy bestowed upon me by the scrap of paper the doctor gave me many years ago to tell you that You are welcome here, formal diagnosis or not. Even if you never end up getting a formal diagnosis, you’re still welcome here.

The scientific and medical establishment is an important part of coming to understand neurodiversity, but so are the conversations we have here; we’re all figuring this out together.

As well as having ADHD, I’m also autistic as fuck, so I can’t tell whether you’re being sarcastic and the actual meaning of your comment is “I probably do have ADHD but I’m in denial”. If you were sincere in your statement that you’re not neurodivergent, I’m curious as to whether you have theories as to why you have so many neurodivergent friends.

Is it? I didn’t get that sense. What causes you to think it’s written by chatGPT? (I ask because whilst I’m often good at discerning AI content, there are plenty of times that I don’t notice it until someone points out things that they notice that I didn’t initially)

Sometimes, I feel like writers know that it’s capitalism, but they don’t want to actually call the problem what it is, for fear of scaring off people who would react badly to it. I think there’s probably a place for this kind of oblique rhetoric, but I agree with you that progress is unlikely if we continue pussyfooting around the problem

Quelle surprise

I find it odd that you seem to be more comfortable to think of the impact this will have on paragliders dropping bombs on people than on the innocent people bombed in this attack. I get that being a paraglider must be scary because it inevitably comes with the risk of being shot, but this is a story about civilian deaths due to a bombing, not paraglider deaths due to gunfire.

I’m of the view that there’d be more productive discussions if we collectively started to use the word “terrorism” in a more nuanced way that allowed for the possibility that not all terrorism is necessarily morally bad.

What got me started thinking this was that there is a character in Star Trek: Deep Space 9 who is open about the fact that she used to be a terrorist — except this was in the context of resisting a brutal occupation of her planet. I have recently been rewatching the show, and it’s interesting to see how the narrative frames this as an overall morally good thing whilst also reckoning with the aspects of the resistance that were morally bad. Makes me wistful for that kind of nuance in real world discussions of violent resistance.

It might also make it easier to vehemently condemn senseless acts of state sanctioned terrorism such as this bombing. Though based on the long history of interactional inaction towards multiple genocides, that probably wouldn’t make much difference.

Thanks for this better source. It’s hard to find quality journalism nowadays, so I appreciate when people like you make it easier to be well informed.

I recently watched the satirical video “Honest Government Ad | Visit Myanmar!” and it was surprisingly informative. I knew that the junta was bad, but through this, I learned a heckton more about how deep the problem goes.

“not that hard to do”

Eh, I’m not so sure on that. I often find myself tripping up on the xkcd Average Familiarity problem, so I worry that this assumption is inadvertently a bit gatekeepy.

It’s the unfortunate reality that modern tech makes it pretty hard for a person to learn the kind of skills necessary to be able to customise one’s own tools. As a chronic tinkerer, I find it easy to underestimate how overwhelming it must feel for people who want to learn but have only ever learned to interface with tech as a “user”. That kind of background means that it requires a pretty high level of curiosity and drive to learn, and that’s a pretty high bar to overcome. I don’t know how techy you consider yourself to be, but I’d wager that anyone who cares about whether something is open source is closer to a techy person than the average person.

Sidestepping the debate about whether AI art is actually fair use, I do find the fair use doctrine an interesting lens to look at the wider issue — in particular, how deciding whether something is fair use is more complex than comparing a case to a straightforward checklist, but a fairly dynamic spectrum.

It’s possible that something could be:

• Highly transformative
• Takes from a published work that is primarily of a factual nature (such as a biography)
• Distributed to a different market than the original work but still not be considered fair use, if it had used the entirety of the base work without modification (in this case, the “highly transformative” would pertain to how the chunks of the base work are presented)

I’m no lawyer, but I find the theory behind fair use pretty interesting. In practice, it leaves a lot to be desired (the way that YouTube’s contentID infringes on what would almost certainly be fair use, because Google wants to avoid being taken to court by rights holders, so preempts the problem by being overly harsh to potential infringement). However, my broad point is that whether a court decides something is fair use relies on a holistic assessment that considers all four of pillars of fair use, including how strongly each apply.

AI trained off of artist’s works is different to making collage of art because of the scale of the scraping — a huge amount of copyrighted work has been used, and entire works of art were used, even if the processing of them were considered to be transformative (let’s say for the sake of argument that we are saying that training an AI is highly transformative). The pillar that AI runs up against the most though is “the effect of the use upon the potential market”. AI has already had a huge impact on the market for artistic works, and it is having a hugely negative impact on people’s ability to make a living through their art (or other creative endeavours, like writing). What’s more, the companies who are pushing AI are making inordinate amounts of revenue, which makes the whole thing feel especially egregious.

We can draw on the ideas of fair use to understand why so many people feel that AI training is “stealing” art whilst being okay with collage. In particular, it’s useful to ask what the point of fair use is? Why have a fair use exemption to copyright at all? The reason is because one of the purposes of copyright is meant to be to encourage people to make more creative works — if you’re unable to make any money from your efforts because you’re competing with people selling your own work faster than you can, then you’re pretty strongly disincentivised to make anything at all. Fair use is a pragmatic exemption carved out because of the recognition that if copyright is overly restrictive, then it will end up making it disproportionately hard to make new stuff. Fair use is as nebulously defined as it is because it is, in theory, guided by the principle of upholding the spirit of copyright.

Now, I’m not arguing that training an AI (or generating AI art) isn’t fair use — I don’t feel equipped to answer that particular question. As a layperson, it seems like current copyright laws aren’t really working in this digital age we find ourselves in, even before we consider AI. Though perhaps it’s silly to blame computers for this, when copyright wasn’t really helping individual artists much even before computers became commonplace. Some argue that we need new copyright laws to protect against AI, but Cory Doctorow makes a compelling argument about how this will just end up biting artists in the ass even worse than the AI. Copyright probably isn’t the right lever to pull to solve this particular problem, but it’s still a useful thing to consider if we want to understand the shape of the whole problem.

As I see it, copyright exists because we, as a society, said we wanted to encourage people to make stuff, because that enriches society. However, that goal was in tension with the realities of living under capitalism, so we tried to resolve that through copyright laws. Copyright presented new problems, which led to the fair use doctrine, which comes with problems of its own, with or without AI. The reason people consider AI training to be stealing is because they understand AI as a dire threat to the production of creative works, and they attempt to articulate this through the familiar language of copyright. However, that’s a poor framework for addressing the problem that AI art poses though. We would be better to strip this down to the ethical core of it so we can see the actual tension that people are responding to.

Maybe we need a more radical approach to this problem. One interesting suggestion that I’ve seen is that we should scrap copyright entirely and implement a generous universal basic income (UBI) (and other social safety nets). If creatives were free to make things without worrying about fulfilling basic living needs, it would make the problem of AI scraping far lower stakes for individual creatives. One problem with this is that most people would prefer to earn more than what even a generous UBI would provide, so would probably still feel cheated by Generative AI. However, the argument is that GenerativeAI cannot compare to human artists when it comes to producing novel or distinctive art, so the most reliable wa**y to obtain meaningful art would be to give financial support to the artists (especially if an individual is after something of a particular style). I’m not sure how viable this approach would be in practice, but I think that discussing more radical ideas like this is useful in figuring what the heck to do.

I get what you’re saying.

I often find myself being the person in the room with the most knowledge about how Generative AI (and other machine learning) works, so I tend to be in the role of the person who answers questions from people who want to check whether their intuition is correct. Yesterday, when someone asked me whether LLMs have any potential uses, or whether the technology is fundamentally useless, and the way they phrased it allowed me to articulate something better than I had previously been able to.

The TL;DR was that I actually think that LLMs have a lot of promise as a technology, but not like this; the way they are being rolled out indiscriminately, even in domains where it would be completely inappropriate, is actually obstructive to properly researching and implementing these tools in a useful way. The problem at the core is that AI is only being shoved down our throats because powerful people want to make more money, at any cost — as long as they are not the ones bearing that cost. My view is that we won’t get to find out the true promise of the technology until we break apart the bullshit economics driving this hype machine.

I agree that even today, it’s possible for the tools to be used in a way that’s empowering for the humans using them, but it seems like the people doing that are in the minority. It seems like it’s pretty hard for a tech layperson to do that kind of stuff, not least of all because most people struggle to discern the bullshit from the genuinely useful (and I don’t blame them for being overwhelmed). I don’t think the current environment is conducive towards people learning to build those kinds of workflows. I often use myself as a sort of anti-benchmark in areas like this, because I am an exceedingly stubborn person who likes to tinker, and if I find it exhausting to learn how to do, it seems unreasonable to expect the majority of people to be able to.

I like the comic’s example of Photoshop’s background remover, because I doubt I’d know as many people who make cool stuff in Photoshop without helpful bits of automation like that (“cool stuff” in this case often means amusing memes or jokes, but for many, that’s the starting point in continuing to grow). I’m all for increasing the accessibility of an endeavour. However, the positive arguments for Generative AI often feels like it’s actually reinforcing gatekeeping rather than actually increasing accessibility; it implicitly divides people into the static categories of Artist, and Non-Artist, and then argues that Generative AI is the only way for Non-Artists to make art. It seems to promote a sense of defeatism by suggesting that it’s not possible for a Non-Artist to ever gain worthwhile levels of skill. As someone who sits squarely in the grey area between “artist” and “non-artist”, this makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.

I liked it, personally. I’ve read plenty of AI bad articles, and I too am burnt out on them. However, what I really appreciated about this was that it felt less like a tirade against AI art and more like a love letter to art and the humans that create it. As I was approaching the ending of the comic, for example, when the argument had been made, and the artist was just making their closing words, I was struck by the simple beauty of the art. It was less the shapes and the colours themselves that I found beautiful, but the sense that I could practically feel the artist straining against the pixels in his desperation to make something that he found beautiful — after all, what would be the point if he couldn’t live up to his own argument?

I don’t know how far you got through, but I’d encourage you to consider taking another look at it. It’s not going to make any arguments you’ve not heard before, but if you’re anything like me, you might appreciate it from the angle of a passionate artist striving to make something meaningful in defiance of AI. I always find my spirits bolstered by work like this because whilst we’re not going to be able to draw our way out of this AI-slop hellscape, it does feel important to keep reminding ourselves of what we’re fighting for.

I’ve been practicing at being a better writer, and one of the ways I’ve been doing that is by studying the writing that I personally really like. Often I can’t explain why I click so much with a particular style of writing, but by studying and attempting to learn how to copy the styles that I like, it feels like a step towards developing my own “voice” in writing.

A common adage around art (and other skilled endeavours) is that you need to know how to follow the rules before you can break them, after all. Copying is a useful stepping stone to something more. It’s always going to be tough to learn when your ambition is greater than your skill level, but there’s a quote from Ira Glass that I’ve found quite helpful:

“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it’s normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take a while. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

What makes you want to do art? I’m just curious, because I am also someone who has bounced off of attempting to learn to do art a bunch of times, and found tracing unfulfilling (I am abstaining from the question of whether tracing is art, but I do know it didn’t scratch the itch for me).

For my part, I ended up finding that crafts like embroidery or clothing making was the best way to channel my creative inclinations, but that’s mostly because I have the heart of a ruthless pragmatist and I like making useful things. What was it that caused you to attempt to learn?

One of the things I find most awesome about art is seeing how so many people with different capacities find ways to make art.

I likely have aphantasia, and whilst I call myself an artist, there are times where I see a particular shape or form within the world and think “damn, that’s beautiful”. I find myself taking a mental note of it, because whilst I don’t make art, I do enjoy making clothes. Aphantasia does make it hard to take those experiences and make cool stuff out of them, because without a mental image to work from, it may take me many attempts to correctly mark out the shape, where my only guiding sense is whether a particular attempt looks right though. It hasn’t stopped me from making things I’m truly proud of though, and a key thing that drives me to keep creating is that sense of fulfillment I get from taking something beautiful from the world and reusing it in a manner that allows me to share that slice of wonder with other people.

I feel like I’ve only been half decent at that in recent years though; before that, I tended to focus on the more technical aspects of the craft, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t creative. I made a chainmail hauberk for myself once, because the base technique didn’t seem hard and it seemed like it would be fun (turns out the hard part is sticking with it long enough to make a whole item). Part of my quest was that I knew that wearing a sturdy belt over a chainmail hauberk is essential for the weight to be properly distributed, and I thought it might be cool to use an underbust corset in place of a belt. The creative part of that required little, if any, visual imagination — I mostly just enjoyed the juxtaposition of the traditionally masculine armour with the femininity of the corset.

Beyond my own personal experiences, I’ve been awed by seeing so many examples of creative people working with what limitations they have, and honing their skills in whatever way they can. A close friend has such poor vision that they legally count as blind, but their paintings have such incredible colours — they have a beautiful diffuseness to them, which is apparently how they see the world. Seeing their art makes me feel closer to them. Unfortunately, they’ve recently suffered injury to their hands, so they can’t paint like they used to — so they have found new ways to paint that don’t rely on their hands so much. And there’s even more examples of this kind of persistence if we consider music to be art too.

I don’t really give a fuck about art — not really. I care about the people who make it. I get that it’s frustrating to try something creative when your skill can’t match up to your figurative creative vision, but that’s also a problem that even experienced artists struggle with. If you made something that required little to no skill, but it was something that you had cared about, then that’s enough to make me care. That might sound silly given that you’re just a random person on the internet to me, but that’s precisely why I care; art makes me feel connected to people I’ve never even met.

People who make the point that you’re making are often people who have within them the desire to make art, but they feel that it’s inaccessible to them. I know, because I was one of them (years before AI hit the zeitgeist). I realise that this may not apply to you, and you might be speaking in a more general sense, but if it does, then I would hope that you would someday feel able to give things a go. I think it’d be a shame if someone with a desire to create never got the chance to see where that could go. I’m not saying “maybe you could start a career as an artist”, because even highly proficient artists often struggle to make a career out of art that doesn’t kill their soul (most working artists I know use their paid work to support work that’s more artistically fulfilling to them). Just know that if you make things that you care about, there will always be people who will care about what you make.

I say this as someone who has just written out a veritable essay full of care in reply to someone I’m probably never going to speak about. And hey, if you’ve gotten this far, then that is surely evidence towards my point about how making stuff you care about causes people to care about what you’ve made — either that, or you’ve jumped to the bottom in search of a TL;DR. Regardless, people like me care so much about art because human connection helps us to survive this pretty grim world, and art is our most reliable way of doing that. I’d love to have you here with us, if you’d like to be.

I think it is relevant given that the authoritarians running the government have made their stance on the LGBTQ community pretty clear. Perhaps this person would have still been arrested had they not been queer, and because we have no way to check whether that would be the case, it is important to keep that possibility in mind. However, it’s definitely relevant when we are considering the kinds of people who tend to be targeted when authoritarianism creeps forward.

It’s also relevant because I would expect that a queer person may face worse treatment in the justice system. The same could be said for other people who this administration is targeting. For example, if the person was a US citizen who was descended from Mexican immigrants, then I would definitely consider that relevant to their arrest, even if it had nothing to do with their “crime”

As others have said, Fitgirl is a major player in the games piracy scene. She doesn’t crack the games, but she does repack cracked games (compresses them in clever ways). It’s quite common for people to impersonate her or her site to try to fool people into downloading malware. This seems to be another one of those.

She warns against this quite frequently. From her faq, for example:

"Q: Do you have a Facebook page? A: I didn’t, don’t and won’t have a Facebook page. The same applies to Twitter, Instagram, whatever else. This site is the only official FitGirl Repacks source. If you happen to come here from “Facebook FitGirl Page” – you’ve been fooled by an imposter. "

(Note: this comment is not an endorsement of games piracy, and this community is not the appropriate venue for discussions of that nature. Anyone interested should go to relevant communities like the ones hosted on the db0 Lemmy instance )