A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life. You can stop watching Disney and your life won’t meaningfully change but it’s really hard to avoid evil smartphone companies. Part of me wants to switch from Apple but what would I go to? Samsung who’s just as bad about right to repair? Google who’s Google? I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’m not going to say that the choice is as easy as cancelling a streaming service.
Yea, just gunna carry my laptop around with me everywhere. And that’s not even talking about all the nonsense on laptops that most people can’t deal with.
How the fuck would I access my bank then? All banks literally require their apps to access the account or sometimes even open the account, nevermind actually pay for anything or get a debit or credit card.
>Inb4 some American downvotes because they forget the rest of the world exists
We get it, Americans use cash in America, and they use magnetic stripe cards and cheques and all these other technologies that were phased out in rest of the world before I was even born, but that’s not really an argument to make on a global platform.
Yeah this is generally the take I hear the most. The smartphone is presented as a necessity and for a lot of people that may be true, but what it really is is a tool for capitalism. It spies on you, gives you fomo, serves you ads, gives access to all kinds of addictive content… oh and work apps!
It’s like AI, shoved down our throats until people think it’s needed. It’s not.
Yeah except I do actually need one for work, paying rent, paying bills etc. It’s a helluva position of privilege to be able to say no to something like that, and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t have a car, which is far less necessary.
Yes, it’s a privilege to be able to simply say no to having a bank account, for one you’d need to not be in paid employment and not on any financial assistance, so basically a NEET and/or like a foreign-born investor, for which you need to be pretty rich.
You do realize bank accounts and paying bills existed before smartphones, right? There are still people out there that don’t use credit/cards, mail in bill payments and refuse to use smartphones and yet still DUI the things you think can’t be done without a smartphone. Blue collar workers also exist. But this is another pointless interaction so what’s it really matter.
You do realize that countries outside the US exist, right? Because the answer is No. No, they do not do these things outside of United States of America - which is 1 country.
Yes, as weird as it seems to you - the world is not entirely in one country called United States and what applies to what you know of your country does not apply in the entire world.
Here in the UK even grandma does not mail in bill payments, nor do most places accept this, she does it via the app or the utility company website for Direct Debit, or she has someone do it for her via the app before she goes on to be racist on Facebook.
This is the same way for blue collar workers. They in-fact - must have debit cards because they must have bank accounts to even get paid via PAYE and IR35 and thus pay taxes. While there are jobs outside of that, the people who work those jobs will be paid into bank accounts, and cash in hand jobs mean via PayPal or Venmo or some such that all also require bank accounts and KYC.
Hell, you can’t even rent a place without showing them your bank statements, or straight up letting the letting agency login to your bank account via some third party data harvesting / “income analysis” tool so they can “confirm” your income and employment status. I had this exact thing demanded when I was looking for a place up and down the country just over half a year ago by every letting agency under the sun, from small to big, south to north.
Yes there are people without bank accounts, but it’s usually only because they’ve either:
a) Just arrived and have no permanent address which is required to set up a bank account, meaning they have to pay rent upfront for 6mo to a year to avoid checks to even get an address, which they can’t get because they can’t get a job which again - requires a bank account - trapping them in a cycle of poverty unless they have savings in a foreign bank account with which to pay upfront rent
Or:
b) Are destitute and homeless, again - without a permanent address, which is required for a bank account.
The same goes for smartphones. You’re not realistically gonna get a job without a smartphone.
Credit cards yes - most people do not use them, and their dominance as a default and even commonplace household usage as ‘deficit spending’ on Temu is most commonly a US phenomenon.
That’s because debit cards are the default in the rest of the world - credit cards are not. Since everyone has a bank account and smartphone, most people pay with Google Pay via NFC on their phone anyway IRL, and many people shop online, which is the use of a debit card - paying for things.
As opposed to credit cards, which are seen as borrowing. Not that many people are keen to borrow money or engage in any finance that could be seen as “gambling”, definitely least so the wagies, with the exception of some horse betting or memestocks or in the case of 100% brain use - a savings account at a bank or building society, all of which almost universally already require a bank account meaning a minimum of 2 apps.
I personally do have one but I’m in the minority.
You saying this interaction is pointless is very self-reporting, because you are essentially stating that you will not change your mind regardless of how many times and how much you are corrected.
It is an admission that your bizarre insistence that your experience is universal - as if you not knowing how things are in the rest of the world is some sort of attack on you - is in fact, terminal. I’m sorry for you.
I don’t claim to know how things work in America, I’ve heard American colleagues say crazy stuff about how everything is tied to your credit ratings, which isn’t the case here nearly as much, but I also don’t claim that everything i know about my country - the UK - applies to the rest of the world, because of course it doesn’t, I’m claiming that what you’re saying - what might be true in your country - the US - is a universal worldwide experience.
I’m not sure what you expected claiming this in this international discussion on this international community on this international website on this international internet.
I would say you’re missing some nuance in these arguments, though.
With a phone people no longer need laptops or full-sized computers and they also get a phone and camera to go along with it. They get a lot of power even just using fairly mundane apps like email, file storage, and a calendar. And then you have access to the internet and all the power that comes with that. I also don’t know why you think phones show ads.
AI, on the other hand, is hot fucking garbage at everything it does. Why anyone uses it I can’t say, it’s so bad and it’s known that it’s actively making people dumber. I don’t touch the stuff and my life has been going just fine.
A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life. You can stop watching Disney and your life won’t meaningfully change but it’s really hard to avoid evil smartphone companies. Part of me wants to switch from Apple but what would I go to? Samsung who’s just as bad about right to repair? Google who’s Google? I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’m not going to say that the choice is as easy as cancelling a streaming service.
Do you though? They’re convenient, for sure, but you can also use a dumbphone and a laptop.
Yea, just gunna carry my laptop around with me everywhere. And that’s not even talking about all the nonsense on laptops that most people can’t deal with.
Keyword: convenient
How the fuck would I access my bank then? All banks literally require their apps to access the account or sometimes even open the account, nevermind actually pay for anything or get a debit or credit card.
>Inb4 some American downvotes because they forget the rest of the world exists
We get it, Americans use cash in America, and they use magnetic stripe cards and cheques and all these other technologies that were phased out in rest of the world before I was even born, but that’s not really an argument to make on a global platform.
In your part of the world…
In most of the world that isn’t 1 country that starts with ‘United States’ and ends with ‘of America’
Fairphone. Right to repair, plus good custom ROM and linux on mobile support.
Useless without passing Google’s Integrity checks.
Two phones.
One for everyday life.
The other for documentation of events, activism, direct action, this app mentioned in the post, and maybe even rebellions.
(actually if you are doing a rebellion, you better use meshtastic or some sort of radios, and remember: do not transmit from home)
Yeah this is generally the take I hear the most. The smartphone is presented as a necessity and for a lot of people that may be true, but what it really is is a tool for capitalism. It spies on you, gives you fomo, serves you ads, gives access to all kinds of addictive content… oh and work apps!
It’s like AI, shoved down our throats until people think it’s needed. It’s not.
Your smartphone serves you ads?
Yeah except I do actually need one for work, paying rent, paying bills etc. It’s a helluva position of privilege to be able to say no to something like that, and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t have a car, which is far less necessary.
You can’t do those things any other way, eh? That’s crazy…
It’s a privilege to say no, eh? Interesting take.
No, we cannot do those things any other way.
Yes, it’s a privilege to be able to simply say no to having a bank account, for one you’d need to not be in paid employment and not on any financial assistance, so basically a NEET and/or like a foreign-born investor, for which you need to be pretty rich.
You do realize bank accounts and paying bills existed before smartphones, right? There are still people out there that don’t use credit/cards, mail in bill payments and refuse to use smartphones and yet still DUI the things you think can’t be done without a smartphone. Blue collar workers also exist. But this is another pointless interaction so what’s it really matter.
You do realize that countries outside the US exist, right? Because the answer is No. No, they do not do these things outside of United States of America - which is 1 country.
Yes, as weird as it seems to you - the world is not entirely in one country called United States and what applies to what you know of your country does not apply in the entire world.
Here in the UK even grandma does not mail in bill payments, nor do most places accept this, she does it via the app or the utility company website for Direct Debit, or she has someone do it for her via the app before she goes on to be racist on Facebook.
This is the same way for blue collar workers. They in-fact - must have debit cards because they must have bank accounts to even get paid via PAYE and IR35 and thus pay taxes. While there are jobs outside of that, the people who work those jobs will be paid into bank accounts, and cash in hand jobs mean via PayPal or Venmo or some such that all also require bank accounts and KYC.
Hell, you can’t even rent a place without showing them your bank statements, or straight up letting the letting agency login to your bank account via some third party data harvesting / “income analysis” tool so they can “confirm” your income and employment status. I had this exact thing demanded when I was looking for a place up and down the country just over half a year ago by every letting agency under the sun, from small to big, south to north.
Yes there are people without bank accounts, but it’s usually only because they’ve either:
a) Just arrived and have no permanent address which is required to set up a bank account, meaning they have to pay rent upfront for 6mo to a year to avoid checks to even get an address, which they can’t get because they can’t get a job which again - requires a bank account - trapping them in a cycle of poverty unless they have savings in a foreign bank account with which to pay upfront rent Or: b) Are destitute and homeless, again - without a permanent address, which is required for a bank account.
The same goes for smartphones. You’re not realistically gonna get a job without a smartphone.
Credit cards yes - most people do not use them, and their dominance as a default and even commonplace household usage as ‘deficit spending’ on Temu is most commonly a US phenomenon.
That’s because debit cards are the default in the rest of the world - credit cards are not. Since everyone has a bank account and smartphone, most people pay with Google Pay via NFC on their phone anyway IRL, and many people shop online, which is the use of a debit card - paying for things.
As opposed to credit cards, which are seen as borrowing. Not that many people are keen to borrow money or engage in any finance that could be seen as “gambling”, definitely least so the wagies, with the exception of some horse betting or memestocks or in the case of 100% brain use - a savings account at a bank or building society, all of which almost universally already require a bank account meaning a minimum of 2 apps.
I personally do have one but I’m in the minority.
You saying this interaction is pointless is very self-reporting, because you are essentially stating that you will not change your mind regardless of how many times and how much you are corrected.
It is an admission that your bizarre insistence that your experience is universal - as if you not knowing how things are in the rest of the world is some sort of attack on you - is in fact, terminal. I’m sorry for you.
I don’t claim to know how things work in America, I’ve heard American colleagues say crazy stuff about how everything is tied to your credit ratings, which isn’t the case here nearly as much, but I also don’t claim that everything i know about my country - the UK - applies to the rest of the world, because of course it doesn’t, I’m claiming that what you’re saying - what might be true in your country - the US - is a universal worldwide experience.
I’m not sure what you expected claiming this in this international discussion on this international community on this international website on this international internet.
Nice job. You won.
I would say you’re missing some nuance in these arguments, though.
With a phone people no longer need laptops or full-sized computers and they also get a phone and camera to go along with it. They get a lot of power even just using fairly mundane apps like email, file storage, and a calendar. And then you have access to the internet and all the power that comes with that. I also don’t know why you think phones show ads.
AI, on the other hand, is hot fucking garbage at everything it does. Why anyone uses it I can’t say, it’s so bad and it’s known that it’s actively making people dumber. I don’t touch the stuff and my life has been going just fine.