Google’s sideloading restrictions seems almost like its perfectly timed… 👀
Anyways, Google can gargle my:
google also recently removed thier similar anti-ice app.
How to choose between this and GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc? I feel ready for the switch too.
Edit: Plus is it possible to get banking apps and Google Wallet to still work (easily) in these Android-based alternatives?
Mostly: Price
Are you willing to, either: (a) spend $500-$600 for a new Google Pixel? (the 9 that is, I don’t think 10 is ready for GrapheneOS yet), or (b) willing to dig into the second hand market and potentially get not-unlockable phones? (those run rampant in the used market, note that Carrier Unlock does not equate to Bootloader Unlock, and Verizon ones are guaranteed to not allow bootloader unlocking, I’m unsure about other carriers)
(Also you are kinda supporting google if you get a new one btw.)
I personally don’t wanna spend $500 since if it ever breaks, its hard to replace or even repair. And I hate dealing with the used market.
So for me, Graphene isn’t an option.
I went for the cheapest new Moto that has custom ROM support, Moto G 5G 2024 for $140 (carrier variants do not unlock).
I’m basically still testing to see what wouldn’t work, haven’t really be using it as a “daily driver”
I’ve also come across the CMF Phone 1 which is OLED and supports e/OS its about $300
TLDR: Get Graphene if you can afford a pixel or willing to look for a used phone from a reputable source. I personally do not like used phones because I think there’s too much risks IMO, you might assess the risks differently. Other options are Moto G 5G 2024 for $140 which runs both LineageOS and e/OS, or CMF (by Nothing) Phone 1 which runs e/OS and is an overall much better phone, but its more expensive, at $250 for 128 GB and $300 for the 256 GB.
Oh one last thing: Even “New” “Unlocked” cheap Pixels on sites like Amazon aren’t guaranteed to unlock. I was looking at older pixels like the 6a, 7, 7a and checked the reviews and some comments indicate they are locked to Verizon because the reseller didn’t unlock it for some reason, so I’m get the vibes that its unsold stock previously owned by carriers, so I don’t know if they’ll bootloader unlock, even if its SIM unlocked. Where as CMF never has carrier variants, so they all should unlock.
Edit: Also, the CMF phone needs the IMEI added in to carriers such as ATT and Verizon, since they use IMEI whitelisting, Tmobile is fine. For some countries like, Australia they also does nationwide whitelisting. Custom ROMs can break VoLTE, rendering it not work with cell service for csrriers that require VoLTE, Might wanna research about that.
I don’t like how the default answer around here is to just get a pixel. It seems so backwards
In Australia it’s a blocklist, not an allowlist. I think some VoLTE-capable devices may have been swept up in the blocking that occurred with the ending of 3G services, that you can manually have allowed, but it depends on carrier and device. Most though are fine.
It’s only objectionable to fascists who are getting their sensitive little fee fees hurt
Apple CEO Tim Cook recently gave Trump a 24 carat gold bribe.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/08/07/tim-cook-trump-gift/85555805007/
That is just so sad that it’s the way you have to do business. Constant praising and sucking up.
I get the outrage, I really do, but the app broke many privacy rights for users and also the app did technically break ToS by definition being a “doxxing” app.
Regardless, there are websites out there that do it far better than the app, and have universal access Apple and Android devices, which makes sense, because the developer of ICEBlock made it exclusive to Apple, and hispanic communities are overwhelmingly Android users.
Was this ever even available to non-US accounts? Was there ever an explanation for why it was georestricted?
It’s an app about ICE, why would it be available to non-US accounts? It was pawbably georestricted by the developer, just like most apps that have a geoblock.
Because ICE targets people not from the US?
Only if they’re in the US illegally.
Also, if they are here legally. Or citizens. Basically, anyone with an accent. Or not. Basically, a yone brown.
Nah, just illegals.
Define from the US. Are you saying those travelling in from internationally by air or road, that are getting stopped and generally detained by CBP, where ICE reporting apps would be useless because they aren’t making it to the broader community? Or are you saying those who are living and working in the US and pawbably have a US Apple account?
People living in the US but using an Apple account set to another country. Because you can only switch it once a year or something inconvenient like that. Whatever the circumstances may be, there is seemingly no good reason to restrict the app to US accounts only.
And this is why having 3rd party app stores is important. It’s why it matters that Google is killing side loading, if two fucking companies get to decide what you can do on your phone, we’re in a bad spot technology wise
Webapps for the rescue!
We’re in a bad spot technology wise
No doubt. I’ve gotten to the point where I have like 6 apps on my phone and it’s in lockdown mode on iOS. And I’d be on grapheneOS if I wasn’t required to use iOS for work.
Can you have your job pay for an iPhone while you have a different personal phone? I’m a big fan of keeping a work device that’s separate from a personal device.
I probably could, but I’m also a recovering drug addict and my partner is pretty hesitant about a second device as it’s another way to hide things. However I’m the head of the MDM team so I’m not really nervous about what the company can see
I thought you were head of the MDMA team for a second and thought that could be rough as a recovering drug addict
Definitely got the experience required for the job
Oddly I’ve only tried MDMA a few times and it never really worked. There’s some anecdotal evidence that it doesn’t work for those with bipolar which I do have, that might be the one drug I could be in charge of with no temptation actually
I do this. Highly recommended.
And the open source movement is such a blind spot to the ‘left’ as well, even though technology freedom is critical if you want to be able to organise any type of resistance in the digital space.
Lemmy users largely get it, obviously, but centre left people will happily let themselves get locked into the Apple/Google walled gardens even though you’re just giving that company a ridiculous amount of power over you.
Right? The collective dismissal of Mastodon from leftist influencers when the Muskening happened was eye opening.
Like, there’s a collaborative, volunteer-based platform right over there. You want mutual aid? Open-source is as mutual-aid as it gets.
But it’s nerd shit.
Because they are controlled opposition.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok and you saw how quickly both parties went to ban it in 2024 after normal people started talking about Gaza genocide in every day conversation. The American Congress worked together to ban it even though they couldn’t agree on anything else.
It went from an Asian platform where Asian people in the West connected with each other outside the mainstream blue pill/red pill false choice and shared culture as well as history that isn’t taught, to “here’s the truth about Jesus” and “the world is flat debate me” after that vote. Now it’s full on MAGA.
Mastodon is harder to control because servers can pop up organically, but I guess Threads was a hedge against that threat.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok
I’m not sure what you mean by controlled, but how I got to know it was as the malware that’s recommended to everyone on the front page of the google play store, and then even factory preinstalled on a lot of them.
It wasn’t doing anything that Facebook wasn’t already doing, but it got banned. The CEO was brought in front of Congress and racially profiled, gave strong answers, and then got banned anyway.
Wonder why?
TikTok hate was a bot farm. The algorithm was always a reflection of the user.
Also, on xitter are all these assholes I don’t care about. I can’t leave that platform. Pathetic!
Yeah it’s unhinged, FOSS is as communism in practice as it gets right now and the left just ignores it, dismissing it as “tech bad” because they can only think in AnPrim brainrot terms most of the time and judge only by aesthetics and make sweeping generalisations about social media that lack any and all imagination.
I originally got introduced to sociallist idiology through Richard Stallman’s speaches. I know he had some, uhh… “interesting” things to say about Epstein’s victims (which I believe he has since redacted), but his speaches are absolutely still worth listening to just for the content alone.
Yeah, very disappointed by RMS’ creepiness (the Epstein stuff isn’t the only thing), but he was 100% right about software freedom.
Redacted or recanted? One of these is definitely preferable to the other in this context.
Recanted is the word I was thinking of.
Those same people are also still using Twitter or Instagram or TikTok.
People will never understand intricacies like that. On the other hand, the big tech corps do. We are doomed
Yeah. And to think, it’s a fairly small amount of nuance - it’s very basic and intuitive and information about it is literally everywhere. We are hopeless when it comes to far more complex and nuanced social issues we face like rehabilitation or ethnocentrism or trans athletes or the what have you.
People seem to think socialism and any progress is like “be nice to each other” or some stupid aestheticism about “empathy”.
There’s basically no way to have a conversation with them most of the time, they are so far gone and their fully formed thoughts seem more like inaccurate shorthands, it’s like trying to explain astrodynamics to a dog when it’s actively trying not to understand them.
Normies are the death of us all.
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We rapidly need to switch to Linux Mobile. PostmarketOS and Mobian are the two most promising projects, and I would highly recommend anyone reading this to donate to them if you have the means.
Both projects directly use your donations to hire developers to build and polish the critical essentials to get this alternative viable as a daily driver.
While I full heartily agree with you, I’m pessimistic you will ever reach enough people with these alternatives. Even on privacy forums you hear people fervently defending how banking apps are mandatory. Those will never run on anything that isn’t locked down. The eID proposal for the EU is also dependent on Android and iOS.
It doesn’t necessarily need to achieve mass adoption, it just needs to get to a ‘good enough’ point to make it viable for those who are willing or desperate to get away from big tech.
Linux still has plenty of people giving reasons why they won’t switch, but it’s now finally viable for many, including myself. I just want mobile Linux to get to that point too, even if there’s still rough edges.
how banking apps are mandatory.
This i don’t get, i’d rather use home-banking from my home PC.
A lot of banks require their personal apps as 2FA to access your account. I would never agree to that.
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I don’t need to use an app to manage my bank account.
Sounds like you people have shitty banks. Maybe it’s time to switch?
I am not American you weird internet man. In the rest of the world and specifically my part of it - Europe, all banks require their app, there is no way around it, and there is no way to use foreign bank accounts or not have a bank account at all etc etc.
I wrote about all this before, including ITT.
Why the fuck do I have to explain this over and over like you was born yesterday?
Stop assuming your country’s experience is at all representative of the rest of the world, because evidently - it is not.
Sure, come to México and tell me which local bank allows me to not use an app at all and I’ll switch
I love how you are getting downvoted for getting frustrated with people who can’t see beyond their own nose.
I fully agree with you, these people just don’t want to admit some of us don’t have the privilege of choosing since all the options end up on forcing a banking app one way or another.
Because it is a fucking privilege at this point.Genuinely shocking. Idgaf about any of this but the America-centrism is crazy.
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Yeah, people should have listened to the people warning of privacy concerns with online services. Now that your data is valuable, companies will do anything to extract it from you.
Stop using those products, de-Google, install Linux, use self-hosted solutions.
It will take some effort to switch. You get to decide how much effort you’re willing to expend in order to not sacrifice all of your privacy and control of your digital lives.
Just technology wise? I think it’s a little deeper than just technology unfortunately
Oh yeah, of course, but it feels like it’s never part of the conversation, even among people whose opinions I respect and are, for example, super critical of AI and talking about enshittification and other issues in the online sphere, they never seem to take the step to check out Linux, or get off Twitter or whatever.
“Sideloading” is their term, invented to make it sound like something it is not. We should not use this word. The correct word is “installing”.
You don’t “sideload” on Windows when you install software outside of the Microsoft Store™️. There is no real difference or distinction with software on phones, so there is no need for a special word.
Windows laready has something like this it’s called S mode i think. IT makes it so you can only instlal stuff frmo the windows store, but you can disable it pretty easily.
I can see Microsoft moving to the same sort of thinking as well. Apple already made Mac OS users jump through hoops when you want to install something from the internet or even through a third party package manager like homebrew.
Microsoft has been trying this for years already. That eventually led to Valve incresing their efforts in the Linux gaming front and releasing the Steam Deck.
See this
I wonder if Valve would ever get into the Linux Phone market.
But for the platform itself to be open, I wonder how much would have to be recreated.
Does anybody actually enjoy gaming on the phone or just do it because there nothing better to do?
I would perhaps buy a valve phone but I wouldn’t want to game on it which sounds weird.
Unless it was like a switch and had detachable joycons.
Oh same here. I’m hopeful that valve brings us a linux phone, not a gaming phone. I’ve never really gotten into gaming on mobile either.
However, if they DO make a linux phone, I’m sure it will be Steam branded and have all kinds of gaming-specific tweaks.
But again, to me that just sounds like it will have good hardware specs. So not a problem!
Not to defend it, but the first time I encountered the term was when BlackBerry released their Playbook tablet. It ran their bbos10 and they created an android emulator so you could run some android apps. The process of installing the apk into the emulator was called sideloading.
I miss BlackBerry is all I really wanted to say.
Not yet.
“Install” includes installing from an app store no matter how closed down and exlusive. The correct term would be “install from other sources than an app store” which is just clunky. Calling it “sideloading” won’t change that nor will calling it “your mom”. Considering how many corporate-speak terms are in use and how many braindead abbreviations and terms shortened to a word’s last syllable -completely distorting the original meaning- generally are in use, the term “sideloading” is pretty irrelevant. Either lose your mind listening to the bullshit people permanently are emitting or just live with it…
the term “sideloading” is pretty irrelevant.
No, it’s not.
“Installing” is innocuous and easily understandable (by those tech-illiterate dumbfucks that get spoonfed FUD by lobbyists); whereas sideloading is eerily similar to sidestepping and is prone to being interpreted as “working around a safeguard”.Words are not irrelevant.
Right? Anyone who has been paying attention to the healthcare thing in america should know that what you call something influences immensely what people think about something. Just look at the difference in support in polling when they call it the affordable healthcare act OR obamacare.
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Right, we should just completely ignore any power words have over people, because we personally don’t like it. Let’s also ignore all sorts of other manipulation tactics cause it’s more convinet to pretend they don’t exist. 🙄
Your phone is fucking you no matter what you do.
If people were more aware of how to make and install mobile web apps it would be less of a problem.
At least on the iPhone you can still add a site to your screen that can behave a lot like an app, including camera access, location services, and even gyro. And it’s just a website like most “apps” are.
Most people don’t care about any of that. Firefox with AdBlock to surfe YouTube without ads? Nah, they want the app, which is basically the same, but at least they can’t block ads. I stopped trying to understand
Yeah, me too.
There is a great app called ‘hermit’ on android that gives you a better wepapp experience. Basically a browser tuned to make webapps act native.
Mm
Mm
“Hurd OS? Isn’t that obsolete?” “Not obsolete. Just… illegal.” ~Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge
Honestly, this thing should just been a PWA. Making this naive app was dumb.
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit to Apple for verification, they’d probably not object to submitting it to Google.
E: downvotes for facts, I guess? 🤷
Yes, and then they ban that developer and their apps. It doesn’t matter you can install apps outside of the Play Store, if Google still controls which apps you are allowed to install.
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit
I see…
I’m surprised it stayed up as long as it did. I thought Apple would have taken it down within days.
Anyways I’ve seen this as a non app alternative: https://www.stopice.net/
I mean yeah honestly probably the best, but I’ll take any chance to rant against the idea of walled garden tech
Would I be paranoid to use a VPN while visiting this site? (And others like it) god only knows if IP’s visiting the site could be uncovered…
Yeah, I’m probably being paranoid…
Not a bad idea. Just make sure your VPN doesn’t cooperate with law enforcement or sell your data otherwise.
Additional note: check if the VPN does DNS or not. If not then use something like NextDNS, or get a VPN (Proton, Mullvad) that does do DNS servers. Plus they usually include better ad-blocking.
Would I be paranoid to use a VPN
Or tor.
Back to the WWW just like the good ol days
I don’t understand why society accepted that the hardware maker gets to decide what software you run.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take, or your blender deciding you’re not allowed to use strawberries in your smoothie.
Are you nuts? Why the fuck would your phone decide which apps you can run?
That’s the key difference between mobile devices and actual computers. You are merely a user, not the administrator who can do anything with the hardware.
Maybe our phones are their f’in phones too
Apple welding their phones to their own store, exclusively, is just like paying workers with scrip instead of dollars. This used to be a common practice for capitalists. The scrip is spendable only in the company store.
We have to stop all such anticompetitive practices.
Just a reminder, to stop the practice of getting paid in scrip the American workers had to take up arms and shoot some people. Look up Battle of Blair Mountain. It’s not like the capitalists stopped the practice just because it was unpopular, lol. Nor did the anticompetitive practice of paying wages in scrip stop because people called their senators and wrote angry letters.
Agreed, too many people defend the App Store monopoly.
Is it that non tech people have a hard time understanding this? Or is it just all the corporate lobbying bribes?
There was a person on a Lemmy.zip community that was arguing in favour of a lockdown approach.
I’ll catch the flames and say “religious reasons”.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take,
It’s a feature for the next release, don’t worry.
And for what reason do you not think we’re headed in that direction?
The scumbags got a headstart on setting the standard for phone users so the freedom that was given to PC users never happens again.
It worked and everyone with an iphone is an actual moron.
What’s objectionable about it Apple? Hmm?
They can only buy a politician so many gold statues.
Does anyone remember how the Devs from there didnt want to release for Android because ApPlE iS sOoOo mUcH mOoOrE sEcUrE
Get rekt.
“Good thing I got revenge though on Google’s sideloading ban by buying a phone that never allowed it to begin with”
We should make webapps for everything. When done properly they are as fast as native apps, can work on any device and do not require a dev license or account.
They’re now supported on Firefox on Android, so good news!
Webapps are now supported on Firefox? Holy smokes!
Yup!
I don’t know what that button does but I’m fairly sure it’s not about support for web-apps. Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites.
It’s the button to pin a PWA to the taskbar by reading the manifest.json
https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-progressive-web-apps-firefox/
Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites
That’s from August, when support was added back after the feature being dropped in 2020.
Mozilla has released Firefox 143.0. The update lets users pin web apps to the taskbar, but only on Windows.
About a month [ago], I reported that progressive web apps (PWAs) are available via Firefox’s Labs. Now, the feature is available for everyone on Windows.
This is for the September 16 update.
Progressive Web-apps are a particular kind of web-app. The person you replied to just referred to “webapps”, not this special kind of web-app. Firefox has always supported web-apps.
The nature of progressive web-apps means that you can use them even if the browser doesn’t explicitly support them. All that explicit support does is wrap the web-app in an icon and reduced browser window.
About time!
Thanks for the great news!
Completely agreed. Nowadays we even have WASM that can run more advanced things, and may even give webapps sandboxed capabilities, and can be run natively on any device with a WASM runtime.
Sweet solution
Funny thing: before the App Store, the original plan for the iPhone was that all third-party apps should be webapps.
there are technically alternative marketplaces on iOS in the EU, but they do the exact thing google is now copying off apple: apple still has to give the green light. apple “notarizes” every app, even if it goes through a third party app store. this changes the app irreversibly, and ios/ipados devices can only install notarized apps.
remember when Tim Apple gifted tRump a golden statue? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Yeah, but are Apple users going to punish Apple for glazing Trump’s tiny manhood by not buying Apple products?
Tim Apple certainly doesn’t think so.
I mean I’m doing my best to only buy second hand iPhones and replace them 5-10 years. The power of Apple is the reoccurring revenues of software and the new phone buyers
It’s really not that bad a compromise, as far as bribes go. Some cheap gaudy bauble as payment for not interfering with billions of dollars in business?
It’s still a bribe and it’s still encouraging mango mussolini, but very efficient tradeoff
I remember him being gifted a golden pager and I’m still holding out hope that he gets the call.
I’m gonna play devils advocate here (and probably be monstrously downvoted);
ICEBlock stored the location data of all its users on Apples iCloud Servers. This the perfect target for ICE; a complete database of locations of every person who doesn’t want ICE to know where they are.
One assumption is that that Apple realised how tempting this data is to the current demonstrative administration and purged it before ICE could get their civil-liberty-abusing mitts on it.
You’re giving apple too much credit. Tim Apple literally gifted trump a golden statue. The press are reporting that this is directly in response to a request from the DOJ. This isn’t apple having a moral epiphany and thinking they’re doing ice targets a favour. Corporations don’t do that sort of thing unless it will make them $$$
You’re absolutely right. Economic motivations decide the trajectory a company may take. Ethics, green washing, queer rights and other factors take a back seat. If they come with financial benefits, the company will follow that path, but that’s always because of money—no matter what the marketing material actually says.
Remember when companies were supporting sexual and gender minorities? That was because financial incentives aligned with that at the time. Remember when those turncoats suddenly scrapped the DEI programs and removed all rainbow themes? Same motivation again. Facade changed, but the foundation is still the same.
Alternate take: Tim is a businessman doing what’s best for Apple and he personally might not support Trump, but we will likely never know.
Tim Apple is a billionaire, doing billionaire things. Supporting the people who give him the most power and not giving a fuck about anyone else.
Tim Apple
I love that his has just stuck, and I don’t even blink an eye at it anymore lol.
Same take my friend. I agree - Tim’s personal politics are kinda irrelevant in this context. Best for apple=compliance with whoever is in charge so they get to keep their money printer. Corpos gonna corpo
Oh, so you’re trying to say that Tim is so greedy that he doesn’t have values at all, other than his greed? That’s an interesting position, but I think it makes him sound even worse than the previous one.
If he does he doesn’t have morals to care about acting on his values as such they are more or less irrelevant.
It’s an inherent byproduct of capitalism.
If you rise to Tim Cook’s level you must be someone that is either willing to put your personal values aside or you do not have them to begin with. The growth of the company matters more and if you prioritize your values you will be filtered the moment you misalign with whatever prevents maximal growth.
Capitalism does not care about values, ethics, morals, social wellness, or anything besides growth. It is cancerous and leads to a toxic society that poisons itself and falls apart, which is literally happening
You don’t succesfully run big corporations by having high moral standarts, this was never an argument. Argument was about what makes businessman a good business man, and one major thing is seizing opportunities and “playing” important people like Trump. I don’t think he’s anywhere as (morally) bad as Steve Jobs was, but he’s doing his job as expected.
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Something worth noting, if you are using iCloud, advanced data protection is your friend. Apple doesn’t have the encryption keys, you do.
This is not on by default.
Advanced Data Protection does require all iCloud Ecosystem devices to be current.
Not every person can afford the latest and greatest.
It requires iOS 16 and MacOS 13.
The devices that max out at those operating systems are 9 and 10 year old.
Current or on a current OS?
Edit: I just enabled it and I have a iPhone 11 on my iCloud account.
So, just latest OS.
Which Apple gives you basically forever instead of maybe a year of old updates with android.
Or they removed it to keep up the appearance that it wasn’t actually a honeypot to begin with.
Money is always the answer with these “people”.
To assume otherwise is to feed the beast
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Disclaimer: The app is closed source, so all we can go off is the developer’s word, although the fact the government removed it is a strong indicator they don’t have access to data from the app
The developer stated they do not even retain any identifying data, so the only data the government could get is public anyway. Through Apple they’d be able to see who downloaded it, and likely when it was used. Your defense would be easy enough though: “I just wanted to make sure the libs weren’t harassing our
fascistpatriotic ICE agents near me”It is impossible to send a (edit: true) push notification to a device without knowing which device it is going to. The developer may not know/have access to that information, but Apple/Google know which devices they are sending those pushes to. If it wasn’t a true push notification, then they would not arrive in a timely manner and potentially only when the app was opened the next time.
He was using true push notifications, so the government could just subpoena that information.
He could maybe obfuscate who initiated the initial message, but its impossible to do that for the receivers.
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It’s really sickening that every corporation has thrown in with the new fascist regime.
At least these assholes used to pretend to be “not absolutely awful”. Now they’re just mask-off oppressors.
It’s no accident that capital is aligned with fascist. Line must go up.
Line must go up.
It’s such a stupid axiom but it explains everything perfectly
It’s not that it’s not profitable for them.
