First off… I just wanted to again say thank you to everyone who responded to the help post that I recently made. The outpouring of support was genuinely kind of insane and I never expected it. I’m going to make a different post elsewhere on that but like… I cannot thank you enough.

But for the post itself, this is in reference to this post that I made on September 17th about Jordan Lund’s behavior as a lead moderator on Lemmy.World. His behavior beyond the realm of questionable and into active hostility and misinformation. A user commented on that post and @'d Ruud, the head admin of Lemmy.World.

Which, you know, totally fair and valid. Who would want that person reflecting the instance? Especially when a term was used about the Canadian government that Jordan wasn’t aware of and instead of asking for clarification, or doing a simple google, he just banned Canadians and doubled down repeatedly. But in that same thread, another Admin clarified they had talked to Jordan about this specific thing and told him it was unacceptable.

Yet 3 and a half hours later, Jordan reaffirms his stance and insists that his half-baked understanding of Canadian politics is correct. For the comment and then an immediate explanation of how he is both an idiot and a liar, check here.

This all happened nearly 10 days ago. The head Admin saying that he publicly doesn’t want Jordan to be the face of the instance, another Admin saying his behavior is unacceptable. What has happened? From a public perspective? Effectively nothing. The only thing that has changed is Jordan is down two communities under his moderation belt. One of those was a dead community that was never used and the other was the Community Spotlight team.

Now there’s a thousand reasons to dislike Jordans behavior but as a Canadian? His stubborn refusal of acceptance that he doesn’t know a thing and stubborn refusal to even acknowledge when someone has proven him wrong has pushed me over the edge. As far as I’m concerned, the United States declared war on Canada when it threatened to use economic force to coerce us into becoming a part of that country. So the idea of an American in control of World News who seems to subscribe to this type of American Exceptionalism? Or at least is too narcissistic to admit fault? I can’t stomach it.

But for the Admins to publicly say that they’ve told him his behavior is unacceptable but then refuse to enforce that? Even when Jordan is flaunting it in the exact same thread and ignoring everything the admins said? Either no one ever talked to Jordan to say that it was unacceptable or someone did talk to Jordan but he just doesn’t care. Evidently neither do the admins to enforce their own position on the matter. It has been nearly 10 days and if anything is being done then the movement is a breakneck glacial pace.

I can’t in good conscience ever give another second of traffic to Lemmy.World. I moved over from Startrek.Website because of a particular person way back when. One admin on the team who was a friend of mine and had encouraged me to join there when I was looking for another instance. He doesn’t even have any involvement in LW anymore and neither do pretty much anyone that I originally knew from the team. It isn’t the same site that I started on. Maybe I never paid enough attention when signing up to make a better and more informed decision, who knows.

What I do know is I’ve moved to Dbzer0. Db0 has been offering a spot on the instance for over a year at this point and after careful consideration of a variety of instances… Dbzer0 is also the one that I would probably fit best with. So if there’s anyone out there who hates me and had @Stamets@lemmy.world blocked, here’s your cue to block this account now too. Because with a new account comes a very small number of posts. That @Stamets@lemmy.world is #44 on the amount of posts made by any Lemmy account.

I’ve got some catching up to do.

To all my friends on the LW team, I love you and support you. To the admins who had a say in this? I’m just deeply disappointed. I’ve seen the speed moved on certain things. A week and a half when y’all admitted you were talking about him before I even made that post? Come on.

  • Pogogunner@sopuli.xyz
    4·
    18 days ago

    Of course lemmy.world admins didn’t hold Jordan accountable. If they did, that would mean recognizing their bias and trying to correct it - can’t have that.

    • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      2·
      18 days ago

      I will say that I was speaking to an admin, before and after this post, and I was told that they’re talking about it but due to a lot of their own rules on removing community moderators it’s more of a process that requires more time. Totally grant that and it makes sense, it’s just more time than I’m willing to let go.

      • frongt@lemmy.zip
        1·
        18 days ago

        That’s a bullshit copout. We’re not changing the laws of physics here. It’s a fucking internet website. If the rules are insufficient, change them.

      • Blaze@lazysoci.alEnglish
        1·
        18 days ago

        Even if it takes time, be transparent about it, update the community and explain how long you expect things to take.

        Keeping people in the dark will quickly be interpreted as “we don’t care”

          • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            1·
            18 days ago

            “Why would we remove him now? We love that he removes content we dislike, like calling out genocide, non-Americans knowing better, and any criticism of our favorite political party.”

            • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
              1·
              18 days ago

              we’re working on his ability to do pr as we just dislike how he makes us look not what he does

              O/U on just a new account gets added as the other is removed? If does more than just a wrist slap?

        • MrKaplan@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          18 days ago

          jordan has been removed from our community team several days ago and we’re still reviewing further stuff to determine additional actions to take.

          there is no clear date to put on this other than my previous comment about it taking several days, as this is all shitty work that takes time and is not something that anyone is looking forward to do. it’s obviously our responsibility to review an act in situations like this, but there is only so much time available from volunteers. i’m hoping that we can finalize it this weekend, as weekends tend to be when people have more time available.

          there have been multiple voices within our team, as well as from Ruud, to simply strip his moderator permissions from all communities, but this is not something aligning with our rules, especially as this specific part was established after the c/vegan drama some time ago. there are multiple reasons justifying removal of moderators from LW communities, but if we apply them we need to ensure that we have proper justification for that, for every affected community, which is the main thing that is currently still being worked on. i expect that we will find valid justifications for at least some communities, but we need to do this before the removal.

          the actions taken so far were primarily relating to his behavior while being a member of our team, not due to his behavior as a community moderator or regular user, as we intend to hold our team to higher standards than regular users or moderators, making this a lot easier to justify.

          • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            1·
            18 days ago

            So is 10 days to remove the moderation permissions just not enough time? I’ve been a mod on Lemmy on another account, making a mod and removing mods doesn’t take anything longer than 2 minutes.

            • MrKaplan@lemmy.worldEnglish
              0·
              18 days ago

              should we just purge all mods of LW communities because someone says so? we don’t arbitrarily remove mods without a proper review. it’s not the action of removing someone that requires time but the review whether it should be done.

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                17 days ago

                It’s been months of issues with one user, by multiple users saying he’s been an issue. He’s been transphobic. He’s been defending genocide. He’s been defending banning people for knowing better than he does.

                It’s not oh one user doesn’t like him it’s dozens of users over months to over a year with complaints.

                If anything else moved this slow we’d call it out too.

              • lemonmelon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                18 days ago

                should we just purge all mods of LW communities because someone says so?

                Of course not. But you equally shouldn’t frame this situation as some completely arbitrary complaint made by the platonic default user.

                There is a clear pattern of abuse, arrogance, and animosity over a substantial span of time. Individuals from the .world admin team have observed and commented on some of these actions on multiple occasions. None of what Stamets collected and organized in his post was new information hitherto unknown by you all.

                As you are the one commenting now, I will assume that you speak for the .world admin team as a whole. I appreciate that you collectively wish to make a calculated and informed decision, and I understand the time burden that comes with volunteer efforts. Ultimately, however, instance administration is not a court of law. Moderation is not a livelihood. The only consequences of relieving Jordan of his volunteer burden are community outrage and hurt feelings. He can’t sue you to be reinstated or win a judgement for lost wages.

                While I applaud your desire to foster the appearance of keeping everything above board and within the boundaries you all have put in place for yourselves, I must also deride what appears to be unintended hypocrisy: It sounds as if you all have decided what needs to happen and are now engaged in finding the narrative that fits the rules and gets you to your predetermined outcome.

                Ubi pus, ibi evacua, not ubi pus, regula consule.

                • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  1·
                  17 days ago

                  Of course not. But you equally shouldn’t frame this situation as some completely arbitrary complaint made by the platonic default user.

                  Yeah this seems to be an unfortunately common tactic with people like them, they just deflect and act like we’re asking them to just go around purging moderators at will because we told them to with no credible reasons.

              • Blaze@lazysoci.alEnglish
                0·
                18 days ago

                If you can complete the review by the end of the week-end it should be fine.

                I don’t know why people are so impatient when things are actually moving.

                • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                  1·
                  17 days ago

                  At the very least, more transpancy would be good. It looks like they’re doing the same thing they’ve done for months while saying “we’re doing something now.”

                  Does not help the same person said “if one person complains why should we remove them?” Which is not the argument being made.

                  We want Jordan to be removed. They aren’t doing it while saying they’re working on it.

      • UniversalMonk@anarchist.nexusEnglish
        0·
        18 days ago

        10 days?! What kind of rules make it take at least 10 days to remove someone? That’s crazy. Glad you left them and came over to the cool side. :)

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            1·
            17 days ago

            They’re not going to elaborate, the most you’ll get from them is some word salad of technical and maybe buzzword jargon and excuses about fairness. Ultimately I think they just don’t want to be made fun of for moderating people, which is stupid, because people who make fun of you for getting moderated by you do not matter.

  • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    2·
    16 days ago

    To all my friends on the LW team, I love you and support you. To the admins who had a say in this? I’m just deeply disappointed. I’ve seen the speed moved on certain things. A week and a half when y’all admitted you were talking about him before I even made that post? Come on.

    I wonder if we can make a site/community that is just counting the total days since the admins of .world have said something and then done nothing about it.

    JordanLund is the current example, but a while back they also wanted to platform flat world beliefs and the ilk, saying that if they remove them it’s bad, but debate solves them. As if platforming them doesn’t spread their dumb irrational ideas.

    Kind of like that one site that tracks the lies of Elon Musk, with a count for each day it has passed since then. Or how Rush Limbagh said he would do waterboarding.

  • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    2·
    17 days ago

    Yeah Lemmy.world has a big problem with moderation, specifically where the rubber meets the road. They seem to want to appeal to everyone in the most garbage enlightened centrist way. They’re still federated with hilariouschaos by the way despite it being clear that it’s a clone of exploding heads and they said they want to keep it federated because they “aren’t hurting anyone” fuck that and fuck them. They need to grow a spine and actually enforce their rules knowing that it doesn’t matter if you piss off right wing dipshits.

  • Blaze@lazysoci.alEnglish
    2·
    18 days ago

    Small reminder that out of the 20th most active communities on the Threadiverse

    • 16 are on Lemmy.world
    • 1 is on mander.xyz
    • 1 is on lemmy.blahaj.zone
    • 1 is on midwest.social
    • 1 is on piefed.social

    Source: https://piefed.zip/communities?search=&home_select=any&subscribe_select=any&topic_id=0&feed_id=0&language_id=0&instance=&sort_by=active_weekly+desc

    Lemmyverse.net does not show Piefed nor Mbin communities on the Communities list.

  • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    2·
    18 days ago

    Welcome to the instance! I hope your time here is found enjoyable.

    Not shocked at all Jordan didn’t even get punished. It’s an internet moderator gig, you take .5 seconds to appoint someone, and they can even remove themselves.

    Let it be known that .world is a liberal copy of .ml that they loudly complain about. Removing things they disagree with, power tripping mods, and an enforced point of view amung the communities the power mods and admins control. They just don’t like that .ml does it for different political reasons.

    If .world was gone I’d miss a few people, but we’d have less zionazis, transphobes, and generally smug insufferable people.

  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
    2·
    18 days ago

    Welcome to the Flotilla! What this effectively means is that the content of /0 is about to get 1000% more Star Trek flavored, which for the record I’m happy with, since we’re probably the most ND-oriented instance out there and these two fit like lego :D

    While this doesn’t exactly for this comm, it is technically about a result of mod power trippin’ and stamets has asked permission for it. So it’s all good.

    • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      2·
      18 days ago

      since we’re probably the most ND-oriented instance out there

      cough

      Have you met trans people? :P

    • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      1·
      18 days ago

      Honestly I was considering moving here originally after ValueSubtracted had a log surgically implanted up his ass. The name alone was cool enough…

      And you say that you’re happy with it but you just wait buddy.

      You just wait.

  • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
    2·
    18 days ago

    misread the title as “An Update on Lemmy.world and a Goodbye to Jordan Lund” :(

    i don’t use .world commags often but off the top of my head i remember him removing links just because they use CMSes like WordPress or Substack; news flash, that’s what Time magazine uses. he doubles down: https://midwest.social/comment/16270405

    But then again I’m an oblivious fool who didn’t even know PugJesus existed

    how-

    how dare you

    • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      0·
      18 days ago

      Sorry on the title fuckery then… don’t mean to be the bearer of bad news there.

      Jordan was indeed known for doing that. He doubled down a lot in the recent thread I made too.

      How dare you

      We just don’t overlap so I didn’t know who he was for a long time

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          1·
          18 days ago

          Doesn’t help he made an alt just for a community dedicated to internet slap fights, until the admin of that instance removed it because it was petty Internet drama he was stiring up.

          You’d think after years of people telling him to look in the mirror he would, but instead he is always right, anyone who disagrees with him about what to put on a sandwich is a fascist Tankie. Or whatever insult he has that week.

        • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
          0·
          18 days ago

          A buddy made some Lemmy tool and showed me the graph comparison between us which is how I figured out who he was. I asked him if I could share it, the tool I mean, but he hasn’t gotten back to me on that yet.

  • hotdogcharmer@lemmy.world
    1·
    17 days ago

    Yeah it made me pretty unhappy to see the “News” community just be an American news feed, and to know that this dumb yank moderates the “World News” community with the same pigheaded USA-centric attitude that we’ve come to expect from Americans is disheartening.

    I can’t do Db0 because they love AI over there and I sort of don’t feel comfortable joining a bunch of anti-human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop, so that’s out of the picture, but I’ll find somewhere!