Right. I spent the last several hours trying to get a mixed batch of Win10, Win11, and Win10-upgraded-from-8 computers to talk to a printer and had just about enough of this argument. If you want a pissing match of who can be the biggest dick, take it to Twitter.
Locked.
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It’s the nail in the head all over again
Did Lemmy just compare using a computer to domestic abuse… really…
That’s some out of touch bullshit. These are not comparable on any level. I get this is a meme section for Linux, but it’s some out of touch bullshit.
How this same conversation can sound to non-technical folks:
“my boyfriend left his dirty socks in the living room AGAIN.”
“Well maybe you should switch boyfriends”
“…what?”
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are you saying ms is not invading users’ privacy by scanning all their files, contents included, it possible? while also removing more and more control options over how the system runs
I feel like they’re saying that what you described doesn’t equate to do getting hit in the face by your boyfriend, which is subjective.
This is the level of delusion the average Linux evangelist operates at.
Thinking you should leave an abusive boyfriend / girlfriend is delusional now?
Shh, just let them complain about their boyfriend.
This brings back bad memories lol
You mean from just now? Otherwise I don’t get the reference
Thinking its as simple as “Just leave your boyfriend” is pretty fucking delusional, yeah.
Boss told me I couldn’t use EndeavourOS because “it doesn’t work with M$ InTune”.
So I said if I could make an old unused laptop work with that setup, maybe the company could turn that into a pilot system and we could be more sexy to new developers we want to hire.
Boss said why not. IT said sure, here’s your laptop, have fun.
A few months later, a couple of devs have switched to Linux. Some have kept Windows. Some didn’t care because they have Macs. Everyone’s happy, we have more options, and everyone can choose what they subjectively feel is the best tool for the job - which is what professionals do instead of fighting.
And we actually hired a new dev who uses Linux.
Boss told me I couldn’t use EndeavourOS because “it doesn’t work with M$ InTune”.
That’s technically not true, it will work but with the caveat that Intune will show the device as non-compliant for the OS itself. If the OS version isn’t included in any of the applied policies then it shouldn’t matter.
You’re right, but I did manage to make the device show up as a compliant Linux laptop in their Intune UI, and that was all that mattered to them.
They don’t care that you have to make Intune think the distro is Ubuntu when it’s in fact EndeavourOS. Some necktie people were satisfied with the result and devs can now use Linux. Après moi, le déluge.
The necktie people’s understanding of tech is probably limited to “green good red bad” while looking at spreadsheets. It’s better if they don’t know about whatever wizardry you performed.
Ok, now I’m actually curious how you managed to do that. Please do tell!
People don’t want solutions, they want to bitch endlessly and have a horde of strangers agree with them. Then they can also bitch about nothing improving!
People in my life get the benefit of “are you looking for solutions or are you looking for empathy?” Randos on the Internet don’t get to use everyone else as free therapists.
People trying to shame us encouraging people switching to a OS that respects our privacy from the shit show Microsoft has become makes me roll my eyes every single time.
We pass so much of our time in front of a screen. Why not do it while retaining our freedom as much as we can? Sure, if you must use it for work, it is what it is, but Linux is definitely something worth learning using no matter what your technical level is.
If you can navigate through Windows with some degree of confidence, you absolutely can use Linux effectively. You can go full GUI no problem if you want to.
Linux is so easy nowaday. Yeah, some niche things might require some digging around, but that’s nothing compared to the bullshit you have to accept from Microsoft.
If it’s not for work, I’m sorry but use Linux or stop bitching. The correct answer will always be don’t use the trojan OS.
Same mood when people complain about corpo media
I feel for them, but they should know they are making a choice by staying
If you’re complaining about windows on linuxmemes, I’m not sure it’s rational to expect no one to mention linux.
ITT: people who have never had to learn that sometimes when someone complains to you they are not solution oriented, and it genuinely just feels good to share something wry/ridiculous to bond over.
It’s a good skill to pick up, folks. Definitely comes into play in relationships.
Be honest with yourselves; How many of you actually read this post and tried to make even the slightest effort to see where OP is coming from? The reaction to someone who’s view was “Yes, I already know Linux is great but it can’t be installed on my work PC so saying use Linux isn’t actually helpful” being “I’m not your fucking therapist” is absurd. Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever?
I know it seems like it’s not a big deal. You go online, act a little mean, and that’s that. I love the internet, but unfortunately our poor use of it has cultivated a society where we no longer try to understand each other. I know people here are smart, even the ones I disagree with. So I really don’t get the over the top reactions to a bland statement.
We create the world we live in through every action we take, no matter how small. Telling people they don’t have the right to vent frustrations just to feel better isn’t a kind thing to do. It’s divisive to your own communities. If you want to live in a better world, be a better person. I feel like this is all just indicative of a much, much larger problem in society. It perfectly captures how callous we have all become. We forget somewhere on the other end of the screen there was a person with a valid perspective and point.
I know it comes across as preachy, but I am horrified by the state of the world and desperately want things to change. But we can’t even behave ourselves on a dumb post about an operating system. And some of you want to talk about changing our economic structures when the real problem here is that none of us seem to have interpersonal skills anymore. I know this is just a very small example that ultimately doesn’t matter much, but I see this kind of behavior everywhere for things that really matter.
Maybe I’m too soft, but being unnecessarily rude is nothing to be proud of, being unnecessarily kind is.
tl;dr: take a good long look at yourself and ask if you are giving the same level of understanding that you expect to receive from others (and you should expect it!)
This is a false equivalence. OP’s post is saying that nobody, ever, should try to suggest Linux as an alternative to the problems- ethical, moral, or technical, with windows.
And your stance is 'Well that seems about right, because there might be a post or two out of dozens or even hundreds that’s slightly mean."
My man, that has nothing to do with anything.
OP’s post is basically saying “I want the internet to be all about me. I don’t like seeing people suggest Linux, it should go away, I don’t want to hear about it, and everyone should do as I say.” and that’s not a stance that should ever be supported.
You say ‘are you giving people the same level of understanding you expect to receive from others’ and it goes both ways. Guess what, I don’t want to hear about people whining about how much Windows sucks ass for the hundred thousandth time when there are easy, better alternatives that they refuse to use. I’m not sitting here asking to be the main character of the internet though and demanding nobody ever talk about Windows problems ever again because ‘they know what Windows is’ or some nonsense like he is.
Like, I get the stance you’re trying to come from here, and it’s a laudable one, but you’re falling for the old trick of ‘well, different views from mine can be valid! We should consider them equally!’
And that’s true… up to the point where that view is trying to quash other views. That’s the only view you can’t consider- is a view that attempts to eliminate other views. Paradox of tolerance (or contract of tolerance) in action. Used for a far sillier thing that usual, granted.
What if someone who’s never heard of Linux reads the thread and misses an opportunity to hear about Linux?
Even those who don’t know about the works of our lord and savior Linus, can still end up in Windows 11. We must spread the Good News so that as many as possible can be saved.
unfortunate but they will have other opportunities to hear about it. also, we should kinda treat things on a case by case basis on whether to let people vent their frustrations and move on or to offer solutions. but I’m pretty sure if someone is talking about their frustrations with windows online, they already know about Linux
I spend a lot of time talking to normies, and it turns out most of them have never even heard of Linux. When they ask “what’s Linux?” I answer “You know how some computers use windows and some are macs? Those are operating systems. Linux is an operating system made by communist nerds. It’s free, it’s faster and it’s not trying to steal your data, because communism is more efficient.”
I have talked to them too but they are uninterested in switched operating systems. They don’t have enough of an understanding about windows to be frustrated by it. Someone got mad because “well why don’t you just use mac if you don’t like windows?”
I guess I talk to cooler normies than you do. Many are open to change, but it won’t come overnight. They need to keep being reminded. Familiarity bias will help them overcome mental inertia. “Oh, Linux, I’ve heard of that. Maybe I should look into it…”
That’s a very fair point, my experience was very different than yours so that’s where I’m coming from. Usually though if I want to convince someone to switch I start by addressing the big concerns like compatibility, which is way more helpful. But then again that’s much easier to do when the conversation starts with the knowledge that the other party is very much aware of Linux
I’m not going to dive into explaining Wine the first time someone’s ever heard of Linux. I start with the elevator pitch where everything’s great: It’s better because anyone can contribute code, so it’s been improved by all the smartest nerds on the internet. Making your code a trade secret is an inefficient system, Linux is smarter. Simple arguments anyone can understand.
When the person thinks their own way into the problem: What do I do with all my windows apps? I give the answer: There’s an app called Proton that can run any Windows software. It’s better at running old windows software than Windows is. I’ll help you install it.
The reaction to “I’m not your fucking therapist” being “Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever” is just as absurd IMO (though some of these threads show that, yeah, some people think that).
The scenario described by OP is they’re just complaining about something about Windows/iOS/whatever just to vent and these people come in thinking they’re being helpful by mentioning an alternative. I’ve come to find that there’s 2 (relevant) personality types; people who complain because it’s cathartic, and people who complain because they want their problem solved. Linux users are overwhelmingly the latter. So, from their perspective, they see someone who is complaining yet expects people to just sit there and listen, hence the “I’m not your therapist” comment.
I don’t think any of that is new, except for maybe the OS part. As a kid I remember seeing a bunch of interactions like this and it’s always been much more a personality than a culture thing.
and before anyone says, yes I know it’s just a silly Linux post but I see this kind of behavior everywhere and I’m tired of it. It isn’t exclusive to silly Linux posts, it’s a general mindset that seems to bleed into everything.
You raise a very good point. It’s important we remember some more empathy and understanding when we turn toward the internet.
I think one of the biggest drivers of this problem is how all of our social medias and news constantly funnel us into context collapse. Even this post that we’re commenting on. These posts of screenshots from other social medias are basically always more fuel for the context collapse fire.
I really thought when social media was gaining popularity and people were talking about how bad it could be back when I was a kid that it was just “old man yells at cloud.” Same with short form video content like vine or tiktok. It seemed like they were just shitting on something because it was new and different and strange to them, but they were right all along.
Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever?
Yes.
you have convinced me
I am very persuasive and very round
You should start a podcast, persuasive round people are good at those
Please get my Autodesk applications working for me oh sage one.
Please get my Autodesk applications working
Uses proprietary software.
Complains when proprietary software limits your freedom.
its not always a choice what software you use
If you’re referring to work software… then it’s not your problem. Who cares if it works well?
“Hey, that 30 second task you asked about is taking 30 minutes instead because the software we are forced to use sucks”
They paid for the software, now let they either deal with the fact it’s terrible or let them call the support center and ask for their help making the software work better. This “support” is often the entire reason they use to justify paying for the software, so go ahead, make use of it.
Either way, not your problem.
I know this sounds like a grand stand but it’s just going to get your ass fired lol. Autodesk is an industry standard.
Fired for what? I didn’t say refuse to do your job. I said don’t waste any sleep if the software is bad.
if you’re using autodesk maya, its not easy to “just move over” to blender. projects don’t just convert. I’ve been using mostly FOSS software my whole life, but even then, moving between FOSS stuff can be a pain sometimes.
True. I can say for certain that the community is the biggest dealbreaker for Linux for me.
I just don’t want to be even associated with some of these mouth breathers, let alone call me one of them.
you are also being divisive! we can criticize people’s behavior without resorting to name calling and saying we should have nothing to do with them. They have their problems but I’m sure they are good people. Even good people are capable of doing bad thoughtless things sometimes, it’s not black and white.
The Linux community on Lemmy is not this at all. They’re all super helpful.
The inverse of this should also be true. Just because my game occasionally takes a minute to get set up as I try one or two different versions of proton doesn’t mean I want to be told to switch to windows so I can get my data mined further.
Time to start responding to Linux posts with “Just use Windows, lol” xD
There are a fair few troubleshooting things I’ve seen where I could have smugly pointed out a clever way Windows avoids the same problem or an easy way it provides to solve it, so it doesn’t even always need the lol at the end. It’s just an annoying thing to see when you’re already annoyed at a disobedient computer, unless learning the technical details would be an interesting distraction, so should be saved for when you know your audience and know it’s interesting.
Ok but have you tried linux?
Yeah ok, so use linux
Sounds like something that would be fixed by using Linux. Can’t reply “use Linux” to you if you’re already doing it. And now, the fun begins, because you have an issue, already use Linux, and those smug posters now have to help you, but you can’t really tell what a distribution is, or what the message was, and typing commands is really obscure so you’re becoming their rock of Sisyphus of online tech support.
Note: the above is an exaggeration of a lot of things. Be mindful of others.
I tried switching to Linux twice and both times I got hit with problems I was unable to fix even with help. So, even though I hate Microsoft, I’ll stick with Windows for now.
