I tried to look it up but I don’t see any real research into this. Anyone has a source?
“So, what’s wrong with me, doc?”
“Well it seems you have strong empathy and a sense of justice, which simply doesn’t mesh well with the reality we have created.”
“…What’s the cure?”
“Money and power.”
“Fuck.”
I prefer the alternative medicine, anarchy.
Yes my friend. “The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” ― Albert Camus
“Hi, I’m here to pick up my prescribed money bag.”
Honestly explains a lot of my younger self. I always prided myself as the snitch…
In school, regularly was hated because I was the one to destroy academic cheating groups.
One of my closer female friends cheated on her idiot boyfriend that I barely could stand… I ratted her out.
Later on that same idiot boyfriend was at least trying to cheat on his newer girlfriend… also ratted him out.
Later on idiot friends girlfriend was my girlfriend for 14 years… However my blind sense of justice also causes me to think that the world works when I’m not in the right position… I wound up paying through the nose for her to visit a female friend across the country… who, didn’t actually exist. Afterwards she broke up with me, and almost imidiately had a new boyfriend… coincidentally from the location she had just flown to… and they were married within a few months.
Got an awesome son out of the deal though… Honestly the part that eats at me, is just the realization that, there’s almost certainly people that knew what was happening… that just, ignored it.
There’s something I’d like to point out tho: it’s not a “strong sense of justice”. Justice, for us autistic people is an emotion. You feel despair, you feel love, you feel joy… we also feel justice, injustice, fairness…
Yeah, we have some unusual emotions, and justice is one of them.
Interesting. Is that a perspective used among psychologists?
There is evidence of it. This page explains it somewhat well: https://www.simplypsychology.org/autism-justice-sensitivity.html although it fails to address it with an autistic perspective as it says:
As a result, any perceived injustice (even minor ones) can trigger strong emotional reactions such as anger, anxiety, or sadness.
I disagree with this, i know what’s anger, what’s anxiety… injustice feels different to those.
I could search later for more sources, but talking to other autistic folks, I noticed that many of us have a wide array of emotions that either work differently, or are not present in neurotypical brains.
The most prevalent has always been justice and the reason we concur on it being an emotion is because it can manifest physical symptoms the same way as any other emotion.
I’ve never thought about it this way before but it makes a lot of sense. I definitely feel injustice as distinct from anger, to the point of having completely different physical sensations. Injustice to me feels like, idk kinda like I’m pissed off medusa. I feel it like the hair on my head all wants to stand up all at once and I feel this hard focus and a feeling I need to do something about it. Anger I feel much more in my face and chest kinda.
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Ah yes. Another episode of the ‘neurodivergent people are actually normal and it’s neurotypical people who are weird’ series.
Nah. Perceived injustice can motivate a variety of feelings and behaviors. Not all of them helpful. Not all of them good (B. Pine, C. White, M. Eisenhardt, et al).
I mean, it could be argued that neurotypicals are simply the most cohesive minority. They only account for ~40% of people, because ~60% have some sort of mental disorder. The only reason neurotypicals are the default are because they’re the largest cohesive and exclusive group. If it were a Venn diagram, 60% would be a bunch of smaller (often overlapping) circles, while the remaining 40% would be off to the side in its own circle.
So if you’re going to make assumptions about someone you just met, (and we all make assumptions. That’s how socializing works), it makes sense to assume that the person is probably in the largest group that doesn’t overlap with any of the other groups. So “neurotypical” is used as the default until we know more about the person. Not because they’re the majority, but simply because the 40% group is the easiest, most straightforward, least messy assumption to make.
Maybe this is part of it. ASD/ADHD people being corrected so many times about doing things “wrong” that they have been “trained” to point out or note things that are incorrect. And also, maybe a reason why we get so incredibly frustrated when NT let things slide for other NT people that we feel we’d get in trouble for. We don’t fit the vibe that NT in-group runs on.
This blows my mind. Makes so much sense! edit: forgot to thank you for posting this :). Thanks!
It’s really interesting reading the replies. A lot seem to be talking about “justice and fairness” like it means “following all rules always” but personally, I don’t give a fuck about the rules. I want you to be kind.
cocks gun with intent
I SAID BE KIND TO EACH OTHER, YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.
Viscerally.
Well, kinda a combination of all of it, but when people are being greedy, selfish, ass holes instead of kind and fair and just trying to make the world or community a better place for everyone in it rather than just themselves or those they know there is an unyielding rage that begins to stir wants to MAKE them be fair and kind.
I am definitely not a rule follower by default in the sense that I identify that many rules are just a framework for compelling obedience and preserving power hierarchies. But then shit like speeding and running red lights or driving recklessly makes me furious, because these rules are not tools for subjugation or oppression in any way, they are protocols for safe coexistence which sometimes create extremely fucking minor inconveniences.
I honestly believe people who drive aggressively are just impotently asserting agency in a world they feel beat down by, because they have literally nothing going on. It’s one of the most pathetic behaviors commonly present in the modern world.
All I’m hearing is the average person is shittier than I am. We are fucked.
I know im a shitty person that doesnt deserve to live, thats why I have to tey extra hard to pretend not to be a shitty person. All those charities, all those old ladies I helped at the shop, all the people whos birthdays I remembered pre-facebook, they never suspected a thing.
I’m very shitty, and I hate myself to the point where I want to obliterate my personality with a specific program that I set up (and have issues setting into motion). But yeah, I do feel far superior to the average person, because I don’t think having a condition, being a different skin color, nation, or orientation should get you put in a fucking labor camp, and I actively care about the fate of humanity. I can’t just be chill with some person dying next to me, it is NOT fine!
My post was just a joke. Don’t let self loathing and a superiority complex be your path to happiness. It won’t work and you are better than that
As Kratos said, we must be better men.
I’m autistic because I want people to follow the written rules of society?
Don’t fucking run red lights and do stop for pedestrians is pretty much all I ask, but that’s too much in the small city I live in for at least a few people every day.
Unironocally yes.
The point is the average person doesn’t give a shit. That’s the baseline. It’s why without enforcement, no one follows rules detrimental to themselves. It’s why going 50 in a 50 is considered ridiculous.
The fact that it even pisses you off enough to write that out is evidence enough lol. Maybe. Not the one thing by itself…
Source: Late diagnosed adhd, probably autistic, said the same kind of things as you before I realized I’m just… not typical
The point is the average person doesn’t give a shit.
Average people give an average shit. They tend to see what comes close to goring their own ox and ignore what’s out of view.
It’s why going 50 in a 50 is considered ridiculous.
When you’re on an empty road, it feels ridiculous to go 50 in a 50 because nobody is in your way.
When it’s bumper to bumper traffic, it feels ridiculous to go 50 in a 50 because you’d immediately collide with the car in front of you.
When everyone else is going 50, it feels sensible to keep up with the herd, even when a sign indicates a different speed is more appropriate.
Ignoring the circumstances in favor of the written rule isn’t virtuous on its face. Sometimes the rules are wrong and you need to use your own judgement. Sometimes the rules are there for reasons that go deeper than their most literal interpretation.
It isn’t “follow the rules”, it is “do the right thing”
Big difference
As I said to someone recently, it is illegal to smash a brick into the heads of every corrupt fascist ICE thug going around committing endless acts of domestic terrorism. It is still morally correct to do so.
Illegal≠immoral/bad/wrong, legal≠moral/good/right.
Pretty much.
I worked in tech and there’s a lot of morally gray things.
For example: the law is pretty clear on what a company should and shouldn’t store as data. Yet every year, tech companies violate it. A few even get lawsuits because of how bad they did it. Thousands don’t.
The engineers (many who only want to do the right thing) see it pretty clearly. Don’t leak shit. Don’t give out personal info. Secure that shit. Extremely clear guidelines.
But, from our higher ups, we are constantly told “ah that doesn’t apply to us” and follow whatever the marketing/analytics/data team wants.
Been this way for decades.
Yep. Rules are rules. Rules are important for social living together.
BMW drivers not signaling should get their car taken away.
BMWdrivers not signaling should get their car taken away.BMW drivers
not signalingshould get their car taken away.I don’t suspect they only hate BMW drivers. It’s a common joke that BMW driver are generally unaware of turn signals, as a function of their cars.
I don’t hate BMW drivers. I am incapable of understanding why one person can not obey trivial rules that benefit all.
The BMW driver was just a cliche and symbol I used to transport this.
To be clear, I understand how it is and that depending on a multitude of factors (location, time, etc) the rules change. But someone knowing the rules and not having a detriment by complying and still not adhering to them is malicious and should be punished or otherwise facing consequences.
And here I’m trying to find usable turn signals for my bicycle, so that I don’t have to always get a hand of the handle when I turn.
my mother once told me my since of justice was my biggest flaw. 15 years later and I get what she meant but what a thing to tell a 10 year old lol
Probably better to describe it as “fairness”. Maybe even “stubbornness” The problem with justice/fairness is that it is ultimately subjective. And a 10-year-old’s view of fairness is often divorced from principles of personal safety or propriety.
You’ll see this problem with adult libertarians all the time. Everything from seat belts to sales taxes to dress codes intrude on their sense of fairness, largely because they’ve ingested enormous volumes of propaganda. The real joke of it is when the term “social justice” impugnes your sense of personal justice. Same with the social conservatives who get up in arms over “illegal” immigration and desegregation, environmental regulations and speed limits, prohibitions on state sanctioned religious education, and age limits on who you can marry.
A sense of justice is a very plastic (especially at a young age) and perspective oriented. Wars have been fought and rivers of blood spilled over a population’s conviction of their own righteousness.
Going on the warpath at the drop of a hat pretty much describes my entire immediate family and majority of my friends. The stress is going to end me early, I fucking know it.
Yes.
But it’s often exploited. All those far-right/kiwifarms autists think the same when they’re doing their evil deeds. They believe communism is the greatest danger to civilization, and worth sacrificing our freedom to fight it. That being said, the left is also not immune from it, see all the section 230 propaganda, etc.
Mandatory reminder that being autistic is enterely compatible with being an evil asshole. They are not mutually exclusive.
100%. Injustice causes me physical pain, especially if the injustice is then justified based on irrational arguments or I can tell that the argument is made in bad faith. Anti-Veganism would be an example that has caused me issues before.
For me it’s cops, I get a damn near aneurysm every time I hear ‘they’re not all like that’. Have we learnt nothing?!?
Simply put, anyone who doesn’t want to be like that, won’t become a cop.
And even if they manage to, they can either comply and become the part, or leave.Truth, the selection bias for cops is not great. I like the saying ‘All the good cops quit’
All the good cops quit
I actually don’t like the saying, mainly because it hurts.
But at the same time, most people seem to be fine with how cops usually work, so much so that bribing is considered a socially acceptable response (although noone would admit, but not admitting what one just did, is also considered a socially acceptable act).
I get locked in a rumination cycle, which makes it difficult to do things I need to do (clean, work stuff, etc)
Weed shuts it off.
So what you’re saying is…my user name is snitching on myself?
My adult son is clearly on the spectrum (seems to avoid getting diagnosed, though I think it would do him a lot of good). When he was very young, he would come home in tears if another kid was chewing gum in class, which was against the rules. That kind of thing is still a huge issue for him (rule breaking, not gum chewing).
i have had severe autism my entire life and i have never ever given a single fuck about the law.
that’s because i learned pretty early on that the law is routinely wrong about major things, and there’s not much of a point to believe in it too much. however, i do have a very strong sense of “justice” (though i don’t call it that, and it’s also significantly different than other people’s ideas of justice) that i do live by very strictly.
If he gets through life alright, there’s no need for a diagnosis.
Sometimes tho, the diagnosis is not about getting “fixed”. It’s about getting answers for your life. I got my diagnosis when I was in my 30s. It changed the way I see myself and the way I react to the world, but not because I’m not “fixed”; it changed it because now I know there is a reason for things being this way and I know how I work.
Which is exactly why its not always nescessary to get a diagnosis if it’s not bothering you
Hey, if you already know, do you even need a diagnosis?
Yeah, but he does struggle with a lot of things. Pretty sure he also has ADHD. I know folks who were helped immensely by meds.
in that case it might be helpful, yes.
