When having to admit their fault the moderator started looking for arbitrary reasons to ban me. Such as not using the exact terminology of the Amnesty report. Which does not call it genocide.
The moderator is also watching user votes, and calling out people not voting with him.
And now Goat has banned all db0 users because we hosted the place that called him out. PTB.
Maybe the next time they post about lemmy.ml’s “authoritarian” moderation, they might look in the mirror.
Unironically as much as I disagree with many stances of some users on ml and your admins are a bit heavy handed at times you all come across as more reasonable than asshurts hurt turbo libs that inhabit places like SJW. Got banned from on grad for pointing out to pug Jesus anarchism isnt liberalism after I defended their point of China doing icky things in xingjiang. Smh.
You have no clue what you are talking about. Be it about anarchism or “liberalism” (which means something completely different outside of the US) or China or Xingjiang.
When was the last time you left your home region/state? Be honest.
What in the ever loving fuck are you babbling about.
That would require self reflection, which most crying that seem to lack
DB0 is officially a tankie server now.
According to them, because we don’t like when liberals don’t stop fascism, like we always have been. Shrug
Bugger off, you fake leftist!
We’re the fake leftists for… [Checks notes] being banned because we called out someone’s actions that allow Nazis. Okay.
Nazis, Batzis, you don’t care about this.
This is an aesthetic thing for you.
You are completely disconnected from reality.
Sure mate.
I had been avoiding !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for around a month. I had previously unsubscribed from it as it seemed to get a bit unhinged.
I had to go back there in the last few days for a post about Piefed default defederation list.
People pointed me out that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works doesn’t moderate comments such as
If it was russia or China starving people in Gaza, tankie roach would claim that “genocide isn’t happening”, “the BIA is seeding fake reports about starvation!” and “this is the best deradicalization program in history!”.
What a bunch of lying, disgusting degenerates.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20140833/
I reached out to the mod, he told me to tell the hexbear people to check their own comments as well https://hexbear.net/search?q=cockroaches&type=Comments&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=New
I found one comment equating democrats to cockroaches
If the democrats start breaking the rules right back at them it’s a whole new game they aren’t equipped to play. They might adapt, they’re cockroaches, but it could be a bridge too far. I think both sides are banking on the other side bluffing. But they themselves are bluffing.
https://hexbear.net/post/5850141/6412496
Maybe there needs to be another community to just report toxic users, with a diverse mod team, this two-way war (especially as both communities can’t talk to each other due to defederation/community ban) just seems turn into a long term conflict where all parts assume the worse of the other.
I found one comment equating democrats to cockroaches
What’s funny is that a few members from Hexbear will use one comment calling out how people defend China no matter what roaches, means that it was somehow a bigoted remark.Hexbear has double standards.
Edit: I retract my point.
The issue I had was more that that guy was calling people ‘degenerates’, I don’t like anybody calling people roaches, but calling people ‘degenerates’ is almost always the mark of someone being a fash. Hexbear has ‘degenerates’ in their slur filter, meanwhile it’s constantly in use on meanwhileongrad.
edit for the fash responding to me:
There is a beautiful irony that a genocide white-washing (“Bucha is BIA conspiracy!!!”) supporter of state capitalism, calls someone else facsist.
This is what I mean when I call tankies like you degenerates.
I will note that I use the term degenerate and roach only in the context of tankie scum.
I also love how after Blaze found a quote using the term cockroaches refering to Dems, you suddenly became OK with the term.
That piefed Hexbear defederation post is weird. They are basically arguing that defederating from Hexbear by default is not a block.
Devs should keep away from default blocks unless it is objectively illegal or spam. Imagine if the Lemmy devs started blacklisting sh.itjustworks by default. That would cause some outrage. But they see no problem doing it the other way around
The question boils down to: do you consider a default defederation list to be an inevitable block, or do you consider it a preset that can be easily changed afterwards, and should as admins should review their defederation list when setting up an instance anyway?
At first people thought it could not be avoided, and were relieved to learn it could easily be changed: https://lemmy.zip/post/47192425/21066707
For the context, what the change experience looks like for an admin
This is exactly how it works. I started a PieFed instance and made the decision (during setup) to trim the defederation list down to none. Users can block on the account level.
For screenshots and more details: https://wetshav.ing/comment/92409
The weirdest part of this ‘one-way federation’ drama is that it’s entirely self-inflicted. Why even run an allowlist if you’re not going to vet the instances you put on it?
Every time I see Hexbear mention .world it’s to call them Nazis, why on earth did they put piefed.world in their allowlist?
A default block was what I assumed that meant. By default it is blocked, but it possible to unblock.
The major issue is that putting them on the blacklist by default: the admins need to make a conscious decision to unblock them. Which they will probably not do unless they agree with their views or enjoy their posts.
This gives easy plausible deniability to who wants to blacklist hexbear or lemmygrad. The partiality is far stronger than on Lemmy. Where we know the devs have certain political views but they do not force them upon anyone.
List of Piefed instances that currently defederate hexbear:
- https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ , the same way https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ does
- https://piefed.world/, the same way https://lemmy.world/ does
- https://piefed.ca/, the same way https://lemmy.ca/ does
- https://feddit.online/, the same way https://fedia.io/ does (by the way, Fedia isn’t a software, it’s called Mbin, and doesn’t have such code, so not sure why you’re including them into your title)
- https://quokk.au/, it used to be the same when it was still a Lemmy instance
- https://piefed.europe.pub/, the same way https://europe.pub/ does
https://piefed.fediverse.observer/list
As you can see, instances defederating hexbear are instances managed by teams which were going to do so anyway, as they already did on Lemmy. I’m still waiting for an example of an instance that defederated hexbear “by mistake”.
Setting up an instance isn’t trivial, assuming that admins would revise the defederation list doesn’t seem realistic.
There are still a few instances that federate with hexbear, showing that the ‘baked in block’ is just a configuration change:
- https://piefed.zip/c/news@hexbear.net
- https://piefed.zip/instances?page=9&filter=federated&search=
- https://piefed.au/instances?page=6&filter=federated&search=
- https://anarchist.nexus/instances?page=4&filter=federated&search= , which is related to https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/, also federated with hexbear
Hexbear’s post is weird, acting like a blocklist is the same as hardcoding a “1-way defederation” as they try to frame it. They are such scummy manipulators.
Hexbear lying? Unheard of! Next you’ll tell me they’ll just make shit up in favor of their favorite red colored hellhole.
I am the user you quoted in the first quote. Feel free to use my username directly with quotes about tankies being roaches and degenerates.
I stand by what I said.
I am from Ukraine, originally from Donbas no less.
It is just and correct (in the dictionary sense) to use the term degenerate when refering to tankies.
The tankie roaches don’t speak any local languages, have never been to Ukraine (Donbas or otherwise) or even russia and claim any and all atrocities committed by the russians are a CIA conspiracy. I even had a degenerate tankie claim that there is no problem with speaking Ukrainian in the occupied territories (when there are russian propaganda video openly celebrating how they catch Ukrainian speakers and send them to torture basements).
How is this not degeneracy?
I promise you that the very last people to reject the Atlanticist Uyghur genocide psyop—if they don’t literally take it to their grave—will be the virulently anti-tankie Lemmitors who have emotionally invested so much in it being true.
Holy hell someone just linked the mod doing actual genocide propaganda. They are a massive Zionist.
Their posts are insane.
And two years into the genocide and they are claiming Israel is the victim of ‘Arab violence’.
Not disagreeing with you here, but I recommend changing “insane” to a less ableist term, like evil.
not surprising goat is a zionist in addition to running a Nazi bar comm
edit for the fash replying to me: + I’m an anarchist
Were there insane posts other than the two in your screenshot? Because those are literally just news articles of political responses to the war. Sharing news of something isn’t endorsing it, otherwise that would make a lot of people inadvertent genocide supporters.
The comments show them defending Israel and claiming Israel was defending itself against Palestinian aggression. Which denial of Israeli past genocides on Palestinians. Israel has always been the obstacle to peace. https://youtu.be/jhasaJbQCfA
Combined with the comments shown below, it’s clear that they are intentionally pushing the Zionist point of view by sharing hasbara uncritically.
This is BS spreading israeli lies is endorsement
Let’s hope you literally take your support of russian genocidal imperialism to your grave too.
PTB for sure, this is blatant bad-jacketing and their behavior in this thread is also extremely hostile.
@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works @kersploosh@sh.itjust.works @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works I’m not sure if this level of power-tripping or inter-intstance drama breaks any rules but just wanted to let you guys know that this is a thing since it’s a community on your instance which was the source of the drama and bannings.
Seeing how Goat tried to ping db0 because they voted in the thread to drag them into debate, I’m gonna go with PTB on this one.
If they wanted to prove their point, they should have given links that proved their point.
On top of everything else, using mod/admin privileges to reveal users’ votes is just bad form.
The main reason reddit is shit is because it’s so easy to manipulate votes. I’m happy most lemmy instances have public voting.
Reddit is easy to sockpuppet because it’s a corporation with one primary goal: MUA go up. Ad sales and user data sales. If the vote manipulation and shill posts/comments don’t hurt user engagement metrics then they don’t care.
User votes are public on Lemmy. One should be held accountable for their votes
User votes are public on Lemmy.
The only reason they’re “public” is an artifact of ActivityPub’s architecture that can’t be designed around, because if it could be, it would be. Users who continue to expose votes after being warned may get banned (which thankfully is extremely rare so far). Instances like lemvotes.org get defederated.
One should be held accountable for their votes
They are held accountable, by the mods & admins. Vote spam/manipulation accounts get banned.
Users who continue to expose votes after being warned may get banned
Depends on the instance I think.
They are held accountable, by the mods & admins.
So correct me if I’m wrong but regular mods can’t see it and only admins.
So this is just an anecdotal impression but when lemvotes came online, a few mods and users got called out for their zionist voting. After that, the amount of pro Israel propaganda being upvoted, posted and commented went down by quite a bit.
It’s too much to ask of admins imo, going through downvotes. More importantly, I’d rather the bad actors have potentially any one of us to fear instead of a just a handful of already too busy admins.
regular mods can’t see it and only admins.
Regular mods can see since a few months now. I didn’t use to be the case.
God that seems like a bad idea.
Depends on the instance I think.
Of course. I can only speak to lemmy.ml. Other instance admins are welcome to add their 2¢.
So correct me if I’m wrong but regular mods can’t see it and only admins.
Until recently that was true, but I think mods can now see the votes in their communities.
It’s too much to ask of admins imo, going through downvotes.
Could be. I think at least one instance has built tooling/automation around it. The thing is, dealing with users getting into arguments/fights/vendettas over votes may also be a lot to ask of admins.
Never mind that anarchists are explicitly anti-authoritarian, apparently db0 is a tankie now? Lol, yep checks out. Those twatwaffles think a “tankie” is anyone who is critical of the Dems, or of US foreign policy. OPs comments were also accurate imo regarding China’s influence in Myanmar being a much stronger example of Chinese imperialism.
The libs have got some nerve getting hysterical about the Uyghurs when they obviously couldn’t give two shits about their own government (and their own party) continually voting to keep supplying weapons to Israel in order to continue its genocide in Gaza. Has China been shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs? Yes, no doubt. Is it a genocide of the type and scale that Israel is currently waging? Absolutely not.
PTB
I always said it was only a matter of time before the social fascists that call MWoG their home would turn on even dbzer0. It’s the classic Nazi bar, they outright fabricate info, erase context, welcome Zionists and other fascists, it was only a matter of time before they got even greedier and started attacking anarchists for being “tankies.”
It’s not a coincidence that they call us “roaches” or “degenerates,” it’s because it’s a cryptofash meeting spot.
Edit: lmao, seems I pissed off the social fascist. I couldn’t even engage if I wanted to interact with your Nazi bar, because PJ bans me from every comm they mod because they lost an argument in a comm they don’t mod. Go fuck yourself, fascist. Keep spreading hasbara, keep tending your garden of Zionists. Palestine will be free, and there’s nothing you can do to stop that.
Based
didnt u ban me from a community for no reason
For “violating the disengage rule” so no, not for “no reason”.
You come across as an insufferable asshole in those posts.
I did not use a single insult in all my comments.
And here you are surpassing that in a single one.
Yeah, there are multiple ways to be an ass.
Like starting a whole community dedicated to harassing another instance and banning anyone who calls it out.
Yeah, except you didn’t do that you were engaging in genocide denial.
You know, the genocide denial card isn’t the trump card people seem to think it is.
The UN ICJ is reviewing accusations that Ukraine committed genocide from ~2014–2021. My point is not to support those allegations. My point is that, if you reject them, then you too are a genocide denier.
Bugger off degenerate tankie roach.
You’ve never been to Lugansk or Donetsk. You don’t speak Ukrainian or russian.
You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
You are a degenerate online roleplayer, we both know that!
Yeah, but when the denial isn’t to cite actual facts but to argue the semantics of whether genocide has to be targeting a race or religion to count, one has to question the motivations at play.
Indeed.
Genocide is also the extermination of culture and identity, not just mass killings. Amnesty as an organisation tends be extremely conservative with their approach and language (for better or for worse).
In Ukraine, they had a report saying that the military should leave all cities. Comically stupid stuff. I am not saying this randomly, I have two military facilities near where I live (albeit one that’s really close is likely to be low priority for the russians). The leader of Amnesty Ukraine resigned over this report.
And considering the nature of MOG, it would be reasonable to expect a lower threshold for mod actions for tankie-adjacent content.
I am not sure if this is the place to continue the discussion, but you are free to step up for the admin and find another respected human rights organisation which calls it a genocide. The admin had to concede because he could not.
While the definition of genocide is so wide that it encompasses basically any mass killing, it actually means trying to exterminate a ppoulation. Ukraine has also not started a genocide case against Russia at the ICJ for obvious reasons. Russia has an ICJ genocide case against Ukraine which it will probably lose.
admin
mod, not admin (same for your OP)
Good catch. Corrected.
I am pointing out that there are limitations to Amnesty’s approach. Not debate club stuff, but real issues.
You wouldn’t be this cavalier if you got to sent to a camp for going to a mosque in Xinjiang or if your wife or daughter got forcibly sterilized.
I can guarantee you that!
I would also not enjoy going waterboarding in Guantanamo bay.
If you have a link to any respected human rights organisation claim of genocide I am all ears. If not you should try to convince them, not me.
Why do you bring up waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay? Was a significant portion of an ethnic or national group sent to Guantanamo Bay? This has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
There is sufficient evidence of mass scale ethnic-focused crimes in Xinjiang. This is even referenced in the report from Amnesty you cited, is it not?
The use (or lack of use) of the term genocide does not negate these fact.
You’re coming extremely close to tankie-level whitewashing mass scale CCP crimes targeted systematically at an ethnic group.
Do you agree or disagree with the fact that the CCP has forced mass scale sterilisation of the Uighur community in Xinjiang?
Do you agree or disagree with the fact that the CCP has forced mass scale sterilisation of the Uighur community in Xinjiang?
I love how @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world gave up at this point.
I couldn’t do a better job myself.
Not sure if mass scale is the correct word but certainly many cases as documented by HRW in 2021 https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/19/break-their-lineage-break-their-roots/chinas-crimes-against-humanity-targeting
My point stands.
YDI.
I wouldn’t want a “umm akshully” genocide denier around either.
How do you feel about the genocide of whites in South Africa?
YDI, you should not have engaged in whatbousim, cherrypicking and then downplaying what the atrocities the uyghurs were facing.
While the followers of that community dwnnplay israel actions in palestine
Not at all, my obese, burger eating friend.
Imagine this; you can recognize the evil Israel is doing in Palestine and recognize the evil the Han Chinese are doing in Xinjiang.
Obese burger eating friend! Are you 5 yesrs old?
I saw many people defending israel and denying israeli genocide and the supermasist ideology used to do it
The concession on a technicality that genocide isn’t explicitly alleged in Amnesty’s report (even if it references sources that do) does not give you a free pass to then violate the rules, which you clearly did after repeated warnings.
You received a 24h ban, which imo is justified given your rules violation. You were repeatedly given chances to walk back your rule violations, only to add more.
goats pinging of db0 was imo stupid behaviour. Admins are also users and there’s nothing that requires them to justify their voting behavior. Singling them out makes no sense. db0 also shouldn’t have engaged them in that thread. But goat did not abuse any mod powers or anything for this callout. Stupid as it is, it’s not them power tripping. Technically mentioning it is in violation of this community’s rules too:
Post only about bans or other sanctions that you have received from a mod or admin.
You were not the target of the callout, nor could the callout be considered a sanction or ban. Had goat banned db0 after the callout, that would have been PTB, but db0 would have to make the post.
YDI.
The source they refer to says it is not genocide but should be called by its actual name because it muddies te water. They proved my point.
I also just found out the mod is a massive Zionist and is still doing genocide propganda for Israel. https://lemmy.world/comment/19117021
You still don’t get it. goat conceded the point that the report doesn’t literally alledge genocide, but “only” serious human rights abuses targeted at a specific demographic.
But goat also says that focusing in on the exact verbiage is besides the point. Serious human rights abuses are serious human rights abuses. It muddies the waters and distracts from the core problem.
Up until this point, you hadn’t broken any rules. But after goat concedes the verbiage to you, he directly asks you to clarify that you do at least acknowledge the human rights abuses as alleged in the report.
You do, but immediately deflect by stating US and European imperialism is worse. Such relativist statements are against the rules, landing you the first violation. When warned and asked to condemn it regardless, you doubled down on the relativism and also denied the targeting based on ethnicity, which resulted in your 24h ban.
Any zionism or pro-Israeli propaganda is frankly irrelevant as it is entirely disconnected from the justification for your ban. I don’t need to like goat or agree with anything else he said (and I don’t, as already indicated), but you did violate the rules as stated and that’s ultimately what matters.
It’s 24 hours for a genuine rule violation, a fairly minor sanction even. You weren’t banned for challenging goat, and he didn’t abuse his mod powers to silence you for challenging him. Based on the rules, I would have banned you too.
YDI.
