AI has taken more things since it’s big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people’s art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
Also free and fair elections. Fidesz published a clearly AI-generated document claiming it was a leak from current oppposition party Tisza, as a real program.
true
AFAIK this has already been a problem, you can find Samsung M.2 SSDs for cheaper than Samsung SATA SSDs at the same capacity, because their cloud customers have all flown past classic SATA/SAS for NVME U.2 and U.3, which is much more similar to M.2 due to NVME.
I was planning on adding a big SSD array to my server which has a bunch of external 2.5 SAS slots, but it ended up being cheaper and faster to buy a 4 slot M.2 PCIe card and buy 4 M.2 drives instead.
Putting it on a x16 PCIe slot gives me 4 lanes per drive with bifurication, which gets me the advertised maximum possible speed on PCIe 4.
Whether or not the RAM surge will affect chip production capacity is the real issue. It seems all 3 OEMs could effectively reduce capacity for all other components after slugging billions of dollars into HBM RAM. It wouldn’t just be SSDs, anything that relies on the same supply chain could be heavily affected.
Exactly this. Micron ended their consumer RAM. Sansung here is just stopping producing something that is arguably outdated, and has a perfectly fine, already more available, most often cheaper or equivalent modern replacement.
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF… And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
May all bankrupt when the bubble bursts.
we all know as soon as big bad chip daddy comes back with a big discount everyone not in this thread (and even some that are) will spread their cheeks and beg for more.
humans are dumb greedy little assholes that have zero willpower. that’s why it’s so easy to manipulate us.
I take issue with this forced distinction they are making
Micron, like Samsung and SK Hynix, already supplies memory chips directly to third-party brands such as G.Skill and ADATA. Even without Crucial-branded kits, Micron DRAM continues to reach consumers through other manufacturers, meaning overall supply remains largely unchanged.
Nobody ever officially suggested the Crucial supply was likely to shift to the other manufacturers for consumers. On the contrary people expect this to be a step towards a general redistribution of manufacturing capacity towards HBM for parallel compute products.
By comparison, Samsung exiting SATA SSDs removes an entire class of finished consumer products from one of the world’s largest NAND suppliers. Tom argues that this is why the Samsung move is “worse” for consumers: it directly affects how many drives are available, not just who sells them.
If you wanted you could make the same argument as for Micron. Who says the Samsung NAND couldn’t be bought by other OEMs to make consumer SSDs. It’s just as possible as the Micron supply shifting to other OEMs who make consumer RAM sticks.
To me neither are likely. The manufacturing capacity both companies are pulling from the consumer market in both cases is going to go to the higher profit margin parallel compute server market. Neither is worse than the other, they are both equally bad news for us consumers.
On the contrary people expect this to be a step towards a general redistribution of manufacturing capacity towards HBM for parallel compute products.
That is where much of the overall wafers are going. But that would be happening regardless of whether the Crucial brand is around or not. Even if Crucial was still a thing going forward, those same wafers would still be going towards HBM.
I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that Crucial being cancelled is just a symptom of our shit market, not one of the causes. It makes zero difference.
Who says the Samsung NAND couldn’t be bought by other OEMs to make consumer SSDs
His point is that Samsung (the manufacturer) is scrapping production, not that Samsung (the consumer brand) is stopping selling products that otherwise are still being produced and sold under different brand names.
Stopping production of something sold under many brands is obviously a lot worse than a brand stopping sales of something that other brands will still sell (albeit in lower quantities in previous years due to HBM production being ramped up at the cost of DDR5).
Aside: WTF are they using SSDs for?
LLM inference in the cloud is basically only done in VRAM. Rarely stale K/V cache is cached in RAM, but new attention architectures should minimize that. Large scale training, contrary to popular belief, is a pretty rare event most data centers and businesses are incapable of.
…So what do they do with so much flash storage!? Is it literally just FOMO server buying?
Storage. There aren’t enough hard drives, so datacentres are also buying up SSDs, since it’s needed to store training data.
since it’s needed to store training data.
Again, I don’t buy this. The training data isn’t actually that big, nor is training done on such a huge scale so frequently.
As we approach the theoretical error rate limit for LLMs, as proven in the 2020 research paper by OpenAI and corrected by the 2022 paper by Deepmind, the required training and power costs rise to infinity.
In addition to that, the companies might have many different nearly identical datasets to try to achieve different outcomes.
Things like books and wikipedia pages aren’t that bad, wikipedia itself compressed is only 25GB, maybe a few hundred petabytes could store most of these items, but images and videos are also valid training data and that’s much larger, and then there is readable code. On top of that, all user inputs have to be stored to reference them again later if the chatbot offers that service.
The lines used to produce vram also do ssd nand flash, so they make less ssds to make more vram
Glad that I recently bought a bunch of storage so that I’ll be covered for a good amount of time.
Bought a new pc in October and I’m soooo glad I did
Who needs computers anyways?
Just go outside and play with real people
Crap, I really wanted to buy a new external HD for my home server setup sometime soon.
HDDs should be fine. No?
Until next month when they cancel those too
I suppose so, it just takes forever to transfer files.
As long as they keep selling the flash memory chips to drive makers, what’s the big deal of them dropping the SATA protocol from their consumer devices?
There are plenty of China-based companies which still make flash memory drives with a SATA interface using Samsung chips and at this point that tech is so mature that there really isn’t any great added value in terms of performance from getting Samsung SATA drives over getting some generic SATA drives with Samsung chips.
It actually makes some sense that Samsung is focusing their consumer-facing device production in a higher performance protocol which is very well established now and were the device speeds are not constrained by the protocol itself, rather than in a protocol were the maximum speed of the protocol (600 MB/s) is actually what constrains the device performance since the memory chips themselves are capable of more.
As a consumer, 6 or 7 years ago it definitelly made sense to get a Samsung SATA drive because they were actually some of the fastest in the market, but these days even shitty-shit no-name brand has SATA devices with 580MB/s read speeds (and, if large enough, similar write speeds) which is near the theoretical maximum of SATA3 and M.2 devices supporting PCI4 x16 offer several times the speeds of that.
Syrup of Squill.
glad i recently bought an SSD. it was expensive, and it will be more expensive in the future, damn :(
I wonder what changed, prices were being driven down on SSDs for a while there
Put a 1tb 850 Evo in our PS4 years ago for a pretty reasonable price. Kind of expected prices to continue to fall back then
AI happened. It requires an immense amount of RAM and storage for data centers, and manufacturers don’t have enough production capacity to keep up.
Prices were going down because the consumer market didn’t have as much of a demand for both after covid.
Well. I just FOMO ordered a SATA SSD. Thanks, OP.
Mostly because I got 2x64Gb sticks 2 months before they shot up to nearly 4X the price! And it doesn’t feel like this bump is going away soon.
I got an old Nitro 5 with a rickity old 500gig hard drive. Will a Crucial BX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA 2.5-Inch Internal SSD be a good Christmas present for it?
Probably should get something while prices are somewhat more reasonable.
Samsung makes some of the best SSDs!!
It’s sort of not needed. M.2 for the OS, HDD for extra stuff like steam/epic games.
HDD for games? Enjoy your loading hours!
HDD works for media, allright.
After looking into it, yeah, that’s valid. Seems like SSD offers 5x-10x better loading times.
It’s no longer just loading times, many modern games just don’t work with HDDs at all anymore
No that’s not correct, a lot a consumer hardware have SATA port (like old laptop)
Replacing old HDD into SSD SATA to run the OS is the way to go in this case.So not so useless…
