AI has taken more things since it’s big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people’s art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
Also free and fair elections. Fidesz published a clearly AI-generated document claiming it was a leak from current oppposition party Tisza, as a real program.
true
AFAIK this has already been a problem, you can find Samsung M.2 SSDs for cheaper than Samsung SATA SSDs at the same capacity, because their cloud customers have all flown past classic SATA/SAS for NVME U.2 and U.3, which is much more similar to M.2 due to NVME.
I was planning on adding a big SSD array to my server which has a bunch of external 2.5 SAS slots, but it ended up being cheaper and faster to buy a 4 slot M.2 PCIe card and buy 4 M.2 drives instead.
Putting it on a x16 PCIe slot gives me 4 lanes per drive with bifurication, which gets me the advertised maximum possible speed on PCIe 4.
Whether or not the RAM surge will affect chip production capacity is the real issue. It seems all 3 OEMs could effectively reduce capacity for all other components after slugging billions of dollars into HBM RAM. It wouldn’t just be SSDs, anything that relies on the same supply chain could be heavily affected.
Exactly this. Micron ended their consumer RAM. Sansung here is just stopping producing something that is arguably outdated, and has a perfectly fine, already more available, most often cheaper or equivalent modern replacement.
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF… And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
May all bankrupt when the bubble bursts.
we all know as soon as big bad chip daddy comes back with a big discount everyone not in this thread (and even some that are) will spread their cheeks and beg for more.
humans are dumb greedy little assholes that have zero willpower. that’s why it’s so easy to manipulate us.
Aside: WTF are they using SSDs for?
LLM inference in the cloud is basically only done in VRAM. Rarely stale K/V cache is cached in RAM, but new attention architectures should minimize that. Large scale training, contrary to popular belief, is a pretty rare event most data centers and businesses are incapable of.
…So what do they do with so much flash storage!? Is it literally just FOMO server buying?
Storage. There aren’t enough hard drives, so datacentres are also buying up SSDs, since it’s needed to store training data.
since it’s needed to store training data.
Again, I don’t buy this. The training data isn’t actually that big, nor is training done on such a huge scale so frequently.
As we approach the theoretical error rate limit for LLMs, as proven in the 2020 research paper by OpenAI and corrected by the 2022 paper by Deepmind, the required training and power costs rise to infinity.
In addition to that, the companies might have many different nearly identical datasets to try to achieve different outcomes.
Things like books and wikipedia pages aren’t that bad, wikipedia itself compressed is only 25GB, maybe a few hundred petabytes could store most of these items, but images and videos are also valid training data and that’s much larger, and then there is readable code. On top of that, all user inputs have to be stored to reference them again later if the chatbot offers that service.
The lines used to produce vram also do ssd nand flash, so they make less ssds to make more vram
Glad that I recently bought a bunch of storage so that I’ll be covered for a good amount of time.
Bought a new pc in October and I’m soooo glad I did
Who needs computers anyways?
Just go outside and play with real people
Crap, I really wanted to buy a new external HD for my home server setup sometime soon.
HDDs should be fine. No?
Until next month when they cancel those too
I suppose so, it just takes forever to transfer files.
Syrup of Squill.
glad i recently bought an SSD. it was expensive, and it will be more expensive in the future, damn :(
I wonder what changed, prices were being driven down on SSDs for a while there
Put a 1tb 850 Evo in our PS4 years ago for a pretty reasonable price. Kind of expected prices to continue to fall back then
AI happened. It requires an immense amount of RAM and storage for data centers, and manufacturers don’t have enough production capacity to keep up.
Prices were going down because the consumer market didn’t have as much of a demand for both after covid.
Well. I just FOMO ordered a SATA SSD. Thanks, OP.
Mostly because I got 2x64Gb sticks 2 months before they shot up to nearly 4X the price! And it doesn’t feel like this bump is going away soon.
I got an old Nitro 5 with a rickity old 500gig hard drive. Will a Crucial BX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA 2.5-Inch Internal SSD be a good Christmas present for it?
Probably should get something while prices are somewhat more reasonable.
It’s sort of not needed. M.2 for the OS, HDD for extra stuff like steam/epic games.
HDD for games? Enjoy your loading hours!
HDD works for media, allright.
After looking into it, yeah, that’s valid. Seems like SSD offers 5x-10x better loading times.
It’s no longer just loading times, many modern games just don’t work with HDDs at all anymore
No that’s not correct, a lot a consumer hardware have SATA port (like old laptop)
Replacing old HDD into SSD SATA to run the OS is the way to go in this case.So not so useless…
If you need SATA SSDs you are not a home user.
Just use a HDD for your bulk needs and a SSD m2.
A SATA SSD is a good way to speed up an aging machine, one without M2 slot. But glad to know I qualify as a professional user.
You could still stick an NVMe drive on an older system as a secondary drive, eg. as a /home drive if you’re running Linux on it, by sticking it on a riser card, although you’d still need to boot off a SATA drive, and you’d take up one of your expansion slots doing that.
M2 slots are standard for more than a decade.
And those machines are still good enough to browse the web, or for text processing. I usually set them up with a small SSD for booting fast and a large HDD for the /home folder. Hell I keep a D410PT around for the times I need an absolutely silent machine (Well, as soon as I buy a picoATX for it, it will be. Too bad I missed the computer-2 case).
Does Samsung even sell a small SSD? I thought they start at like 128GB
I needed a SATA SSD for my raspberry pi 4 connected via usb3.
I am a home user.
Fair point. What the fuck are you doing with it?
Do you enjoy being an ass?
I was trying to convey confusion as to what a cheap microcomputer could even be used for that needs that much fast storage. They ought not to be using it for scientific compute, that’s for sure.
Jellyfin media server. I have another one acting as my router (with a small managed switch and openWRT) and one more pi5 i am using as a retro console. That one uses 2 nvme m.2 drives but the pi4 doesnt support nvme, only sata.
That works with a raspberry? Those tiny 10€ microcomputers? Color me impressed.
Do you really need the SSDs for that? I would have guessed that hdds are plenty fine.
Yeah, cant do any transcoding though, but i dont need 4k for everything. Though as long as my client can play the format of the video then theres no issue. It would be easier with a mini PC but im enjoying learning linux and really liking the rasberry pi in general.
In terms of SSD. I could use a HDD. But it comes with 2 disadvantages. 1 is that media i copy from other devices to the drive takes A LOT longer to transfer. And 2, i have a big clunky HDD on my desk next to my 5 inch Pi… just makes more sense to use an SSD.
But essentially i guess its just not great to assume that there is no use case for them for home users just because you dont have a use case for them personally.
Motherboards have limited M.2 slots though. I can add more SATA SSDs to easily expand my steam library - or even mix SSDs and HDDs in a cursed LVM.
Three years ago, I replaced a failing SATA SSD in my personal laptop with a new SATA SSD. That laptop had plenty of power, and I’d still be using it today if the keyboard still worked, and the screen hinges weren’t cracked. It had no NVME slots.
I remember when 8TB SATA SSD was $350
pepperidge farm remembers
sure grandma, lets get you to bed
My mind forgot that M.2 is probably more prevalent these days and that they’re not just shutting down for no reason.
Is it though? Pretty much every single current-gen mainboard still comes with a number of SATA ports.
SATA is not intended for fast storage devices but bulk storage, at this point.
Most people have one drive. Everything else is cloud based now. It’s horrible 😭
Omg I didn’t even mean OneDrive but I guess that’s still accurate since windows is dominant on home PCs
I’ve got 4 drives and better upgrade while I can.
Ever seen a Chromebook? Almost no drive space, because Google.
Everyone is going to buy M.2 SSDs first, and only buy SATA if they don’t have enough M.2 slots. I really doubt SATA SSDs are selling well.
With that said, I don’t see SATA going anywhere. It’s (comparatively low) bandwidth means you can throw a few ports on your board and not sacrifice much. For some quick math: a M.2 port back-hauled by PCIe 4.0 x4 has 7.8 GB/s of data lines going to it. While SATA 6.0 has only 0.75 GB/s of data lines going to it.
And how many motherboards have the same amount of m.2 slots as they do sata slots? And what generation? So now I need new ram which is inflated to high hell, a new motherboard and cpu to increase storage on my gaming rig? Its not like games are small these days I like to keep most games i have installed and that takes multiple terabytes of storage that is cheaper to do via sata ssds… this is clearly anti consumer and done purely to push people to newer systems in the hope people stay with windows instead of swapping to linux. Its being done to keep the ai bubble going…
They are going to have less m.2 slots as they require a ton more data lanes. If you do need another m.2 slot, a PCIe adapter card or a SATA adapter are both good options.
SATA is really convenient for larger storage, though. I keep my OS on nvmes, but I’ve got a couple of SATA drive and a hot swap bay for games, media, etc.
I’m still running SATA spinny disks for my big-ish data. I can’t afford a 16TB SSD…
I know that’s off topic, but HDDs are still a thing too.
I’m very excited for the day I can replace my spinners with SSDs. That day is coming, but it is not today.
Right‽ I don’t think anyone expected spinners to outlast SATA SSDs!
They have become expensive too IMO, a 3-4 TB drive costs more today than a couple of years ago, and the used market here in europe is insane.
Here I am, I have like 3 or 4 m.2 drives but like 15 or something SATA drives
Even then, NVMe riser cards are a thing to just stick an NVMe drive in a spare PCIe slot.
Does require you to have the PCIe lanes for it, BIOS support for booting to PCIe (which Intel 6th gen core CPUs were the first to support. 4th gen never did but some had m.2 slots and NVMe support for secondary drives and the 5th gen X99s had some receive BIOS updates to support but that’s its own can of worms) and both Intel and AMD have historically been pretty bad about being stingy about PCIe lane availability
Plus to run more than a single NVMe on a single slot your motherboard either needs to support PCIe bifurcation which is almost exclusively an enterprise feature or they need to have the right lane configuration available to support that x16 slot handing out 4x4 lanes (or 2x8/2x4 for dual NVMe)
both Intel and AMD have historically been pretty bad about being stingy about PCIe lane availability
- Hold up, I thought some of the nicer AM3+ boards using the 990FX chipset had a fair bit of lanes available both for their time and even now still. Like, the best 990FX boards on AM3+ had more expansion than the X370/470/570 boards on AM4 or the best X670/X870 boards on AM5 last time I thought.
Y’know what, I honestly haven’t looked at what the PCIe lane layout is like on newer chipsets. Maybe it’s gotten better since I last really paid attention like 5+ years ago. I remember in early-mid AM4 there was a lot of grumbling about how there’s only 20 PCIe 3 lanes followed by early PCIe 4 platforms that would give only 16-20 lanes with another 8 or so PCI 3 lanes. I also didn’t really pay much attention to AMD before AM4 given how far behind Intel they were. But I could be entirely out of date now that I think about it
Phoenix2 APUs like the R3 8300G and R5 8500G are the worst offenders in the ‘cutting PCIe lanes’ department.
The R5 8500G only has 14 lanes, for example. The FX-8350 and 8370 from a decade earlier, would’ve had 32 lanes available on the 990FX chipset, and half that on the 990X and 970 chipsets per contemporary reviews from when those CPUs were new, but they were all PCIe 2 as AM3+ was a PCIe 2 platform.
This is the specific review I’m going off of for this. FX-8350 review
Per that review, 990FX would’ve supported 2 x16 or 4 x8 slots, while 990X would’ve supported 2 x8 slots, and 970 would’ve only supported a single x16 slot, but of course configs varied by the board makers, and there would’ve been nothing stopping someone from making a 990FX board with a single x16 slot, three x4 slots, and two x2 slots, for example, nor a 990X board with a single x16 slot or a 970 board with a single x8 slot and two x4 slots.
I have one m.2 and multiple sata ssd, since on my motherboard occupying the second m.2 slot would drop the pcie lane for my GPU due to sharing bandwidth.
Do newer boards not have that problem?
Higher spec boards dont have this issue; Typically an issue with low and mid range boards due to cost savings.
Which just also shows why this is a very anti consumer move. Its trying to artifically push people to by new hardware because there hasn’t been significant enough changes to really warrant it. This then means more people who might have swapped off of windows to keep their existing hardware might end up having to upgrade then stick with their familiar windows platform so that the ai bubble can continue. Its completely fucked up
Yeah, but I think SATA is quickly being relegated to large mechanical storage drives. For things that don’t require performance, like storage and what have… because SATA is not getting any faster, I doubt anyones gonna come out with a SATA IV standard at this point, when PCIE over M2 is easier, simpler, and faster, and… outside of silicon shortage stupidities, getting cheaper and more affordable.
Comes with them, but only for legacy media. Outside of my NAS I haven’t bought a new sata drive in probably 10 years. And I haven’t touched my onboard sata ports in 5.
The fact that they’re still there impresses me at this point. But their numbers are slowly dwindling. Sata is usually the first thing that gets dropped when you need more pcie lanes. And even then most boards only have 4 at this point. They’re switching back to those god awful vertical ports which tells you all you need to know about their priority.
Most people at least put their OS on M2. I guess if you haven’t upgraded since M2 became common on motherboards you might not.
Edit: I internet says M2 was common around 2016 2017 motherboards.
Guess it’s time to get some m.2 to SATA adapters
I would be surprised if m2 has overtaken regular sata connections for the majority of computers produced for businesses and individuals, but maybe they don’t make enough in that area.
They definitely have. The smaller form factor is better for laptops, and if you can share parts between laptop and desktop it’s cheaper.
